Marwa Yousif

full interview

Today is the 12th of September/ 2020. I am Hajar Sulieman from the “one thousand dreams” initiative. Our goal is to help raise the voice of refugees by telling their stories to people from different societies like the European societies along with other societies. By that we intend to  help them to be introduced to these societies as people who have challenges and problems, and we are doing that using the audio-visual media, like the Radio and TV along with modern social media. I am here  today to do an interview with one of our Iraqi sisters, Marwa Yusuf Ghanem. This interview will be voice and video recorded.For that we need your consent and we need your consent to share it afterward. Please, if you agree, sign the form for us. During this interview, I will be asking you some personal questions. If at any point of time you feel uncomfortable or you do not want to answer any question, please let me know. Now, before we start, would you like to ask any question? Could you introduce yourself by saying your name and the spell of it in English please
My name is Marwa Ghanem Yussef.

What type of house are you living in at the moment, Marwa? 
I have a 5 year residency right now, so it’s a private rental. I rented it by myself from a state agent.

Could you describe the house state for me ? 
The house state is okay, Thank God. At the beginning, I faced some difficulties, but now I am stable and everything is fine, i learned how to deal with things more so I am comfortable. Thank God.

Who are you living with, Marwa? 
I am living with my two children. I have two daughters

What’s your daily routine? 
I am always busy with my children, and you know they need a lot of time. Along with that I spend some time doing  chores, sometimes I go out with my children, I visit my family, my sisters. You can say it’s the regular daily routine we all have, and I am not allowed to work these days, as I have a child under the age of 2 years, so when she becomes older I will be able to work and I will think about work at that time

What are the things that make you happy in life, Marwa? 
There are many things that make me happy in life. My children are at the top of the list, they are the source of hope in my life. I make myself happy too by choice, despite everything, despite all the difficulties and problems we face everyday as humans, still we need to stay positive and keep the faith in God and that will protect you from any harm. The trust and the faith in God those two make me happy and comfortable.

What exactly makes you happy? Can you be more specific ?
Specifically, when I look after my children, and that takes too much time, when I am thinking about their future and how they will grow up with me at different levels and stages of their lives, and you know children have different growth levels, and their needs and reactions to life during these levels are different. All of that makes me happy, as my children are everything to me in this life. Sometimes I might be sad, but I try not to show that to them, so I start playing and talking to them and I end up forgetting about my sadness. That’s why I am telling you my children are my happiness and they are everything in my life. Indeed, my faith in God and my trust that God will make tomorrow better than yesterday makes me feel better, makes me happy.

How would you describe life here at first when you got to know it and its details when you arrived in Britain ? 
Do you mean my journey of coming here?

No, not the journey, the life in Europe itself after arriving and settling down
It was very difficult, I can not describe how difficult it was. The reality was very hard with a lot of pain. We did not get the formal papers from this country up until 3 years of being here. I came here and stayed for 3 years without papers, I was married but I did not have any children at that time. My husband and I lived 3 difficult years, you know without papers you can do nothing, you can not work, you can not apply for any jobs. I was moving from one place to another, honestly because at first I was taken to a prison at first for 3 days because I had a fingerprint on another European country. Then they transferred me to a detention center for 70 days, and I was separated from my husband, he was at one detention center , and I was at another, it was very difficult as you know you are in a foreign country, and everybody around you is different and no one can understand your story and your problem, so it was difficult. I stayed there for 2 weeks without my husband then I talked to the security and explained to them that I know no one on here and I need my husband and I insisted on that, I didn’t even know why I was there. The detention center is like a social prison, it’s not for criminals, it’s for people who they need to keep an eye on but they do not deserve to be in a prison. They keep refugees who have fingerprints in other European countries, so they can transfer them from there. After staying there for 70 days and after trying to have a sponsor, going to the court and appealing multiple times, we were released from the detention center. We went out and lived for one year and a half at a family friend’s house as my family is living here, we stayed for one year and a half and then he told us that we needed to leave, as we did not have papers, no one would care that much about us. After that the home office/ the immigration gave us an apartment in Cardiff, I stayed there for one year and 3 months, then after that they finally gave us residency. After that, the situation started to become better and better, we faced some difficulties but we started to be more and more stable. We got a permanent address, we finished our paper works, you know that we had to register on many things, but today things are better. Thank God.

What is the good side of living in Britain? 
There are good things that we never had in our countries. Safety or feeling safe all the time is one of them, of course there is no country without problems, but here you can say it’s safe, and you feel that. Another thing is freedom, you can go out as a woman at any time without any problem. About racism, it’s decreasing with time, we faced some racism. However, it’s rare, we do not often face any. Why? The legal system here stands up against any racism towards muslims in particular and against migrants in general.

What is the difficult side of living in the UK? 
When I first came here, everything was very difficult. I had no stable place to stay and live in, which was very difficult. We had no money ourselves and the Immigration was not  providing any financial support at that time. Being away from my father and mother because they were living in Iraq then. I had two brothers and a sister living here at that time, but I could not meet them as I was in detention. Being away from my parents for the first time after being near them my whole life, that made things very difficult for me. Being away from my family and my husband made things very difficult too.

Would you please describe for me how living here made you feel? or impact your feelings about life? 
When I arrived in this country, or even when I arrived in Europe as a whole, I felt like I was a totally different person. That feeling came from seeing women with confidence all around you. In these countries, there’s equality between men and women. Women can work, take responsibilities, do things exactly the same way men do. I started to be independent and do things on my own, like I learned English, and I learned it quickly as my language was good before coming  here, it was very good actually. Britain made me a better person, even everybody around me at that time was very helpful. I made some mistakes, however, they were reassuring me saying it’s okay, you will learn by time. Nobody was putting me down, even when I was in detention, they were encouraging me and helping me whenever I made mistakes. I became independent very quickly, I understood life here and its details, I understood the challenges and the problems that I might be facing, I started to plan what I am going to do, how I am going to work, how I will be following the law and to be a good person same as anyone else living here. I formed and shaped myself here and I developed a stronger version of my personality, because this country does care about women’s rights and listen to their voices.

Did you imagine that you were going to adapt to the various circumstances and challenges that you would be facing living in Britain? 
No, of course not. We are not Superhumans, we are just normal human beings. We were not thinking that we can adapt and face the biggest problems, I did not think that I would be facing that many problems.However, we need to adapt with reality, and accept that problems happen. We need to stay strong to face life challenges, and that is what made me stronger and stronger.

What was your way of facing the challenges you had in Britain? 
As I told you before, I was always thinking of tomorrow as a new day and a  better day than today. When I’d go to sleep every night and put my head on the pillow, I would think, today is hard and I have a lot of problems but since God is watching how tired I am, and he’s testing me with that. I’d think to myself..of course I will live better days and all I need to do is to work harder to see these beautiful days. Thank God, at the end, God is always generous with me.

During your time living here, have you developed any skills or maybe improved a skill that you had before coming here?
I improved my English, and now I am very good at it. I now know how to talk and interact with different people from various backgrounds, I mean those who live here. People are not the same, and everybody is different, and I taught myself how to interact with different people. I learned how to work on myself, how to plan a good life for my children. I have not worked yet, because when the residency papers were issued I was pregnant at that time, and I became pregnant very fast after that, so there was no chance for me to work. However, I want  to work here in Britain, I want to develop that experience in life by living the work life. One thing I did is learn how to drive, and I have a driver’s license now. All in all, I taught myself many things and I developed and improved quickly, and now I am studying for the British nationality’s exam.

What was the effect of the COVID-19 pandemic on your life? Socially and emotionally and in general let’s say
It has its own impact on the entire world, not only on us, like all countries are suffering because of it. Of course it affected the whole world on a mental level, however, all that we can say although it’s a pandemic it’s still from God. We tried to adapt to the situation, like you know you need to be attentive to sterilization and personal hygiene but still this is not a new thing to us. I think the harder part was with our children, as it is very difficult for them to not go out for 3 or 4 months, even up to today.. but in the end we adapted and everything was okay. Now, we are not afraid of it, the pandemic is afraid of us ( Laughing )

Why did you leave Iraq?
I am from Shia and my husband is from Sunna. When ISIS took control of Mosul city, which is my city.. we were under the threats of being killed or tortured. Everybody knows that ISIS was targeting people from minority groups like Shia or Yazidi. Consequently, I had to leave the city. I never liked the idea of leaving to Europe at all, my husband always liked the idea but I never agreed. However, when ISIS  first took control which made it necessary for me to leave. I don’t know anyone in any European countries, and I chose Britain because my family is living here and I wanted to live with my family.

Can you describe what was going on in your city (  Mosul )? Did you witness any incidents ?
Ofcourse, I have seen everything. I stayed in Mosul for 4 months after ISIS first took control. After those 4 months passed, they started to show their ugly face, which was all about killing and torturing. Cutting off hands, torturing women and even bombing mosques. We realized that they are not the way we thought they are. They were not an Islamic state that is trying to preserve the values of the society while respecting the fact that this is a multicultural society, and that’s why we left quickly. Their way of managing things was ugly and bad from the start,I can’t even describe it for you. The killing was everywhere around us, and we saw it everyday. Dead bodies were everywhere, they’re throwing people from high buildings, they were cutting off hands with swords in front of children’s eyes. They asked women to cover their faces, many women were having breathing problems but they did not take any considerations for that, they did not have any mercy in their hearts, they are not forgiving at all. women who refused to obey their rules get torture, they would bring another woman and letting her bite the disobeyed ones a strong bite that breaks through the skin and the flesh. All of these situations forced about 90% of the people of Mosul to leave.

How did all of that make you feel at that time? Please tell us how these incidents made you feel? witnessing all these killings and feeling unsafe, how did that affect you?
Of course, We were afraid, We were horrified. Imagine everybody around you being killed and tortured by people who don’t have any mercy in their hearts. You could be the next, because it was really by turns, one day it’s the day of christians, the other day it would be the day of Shiaa, another day it’s the day of Yezids. So, you were waiting for the day you’ll be killed. Everybody was under risk and threatened of being killed, everybody had the feeling that their lives were about to end. We were all afraid and feeling terrible. It was like living in a horror movie, with all the murders and bombings. We already have some experience with that from the Iraqi war. The period after the regime fell was difficult, killings and bombings were everywhere, and we had to leave our areas. .. The soul is from God, and he’s the only one who takes it, however, one doesn’t like for the soul to be killed without a reason by cheap people like those, I mean those people are  criminals and bandits. Thank God we escaped that suffering.

Are you thinking about what happened all the time?
Indeed, all the time. Those are not easy things to forget, I will never be able to forget them. These are very difficult and disgusting things to see, it’s unimaginable!! To see a human being killed in front of you, or to see how their heads are cut off, it’s not easy at all. That caused a lot of mental issues for us. Depression, panic attacks, and being afraid all the time. You wake up during the night with extreme sweating because of the nightmares that reflect the things you witnessed in reality. Imagine being in that position in which an innocent human being is killed in a bad way in front of you. It’s really difficult.

Is there any specific incident that you keep thinking about?
There’s a specific incident, yes. They gathered people, and they announced to the speakers that they are going to kill an “apostate” from islam today.  They brought a person and threw him from a 10 floors building, while down the ground was covered by big stones. As if he’s not one of us, Ironically, we were all muslims and this incident will never go away from my mind.

When you remember this incident, how do you feel?
I feel scared!, and I am still thinking that someday, I might go back to Iraq and I will face the same destiny because I heard that there are still members of ISIS there hiding in some areas of Iraq. Recently, it’s been repeatedly reported  that these people are attacking somebody, and the actual reason behind that is because they attack anyone who reports them to the authorities. So some of them are still there which makes me feel so scared. My heart is terrified.

Are these things still affecting your life nowadays?
I am trying to forget, however, humans don’t forget. I am trying to fill my time and mind with beautiful things and have a nice new life here. I am trying to enforce my mind to not repeatedly keep remembering again and again. However, I am not there yet but I am still trying.

Ever thought that you are able to overcome these incidents or do you imagine yourself leaving these incidents behind you?
It’s been six years now, however, it’s still deep in the heart. We can pass it by living a normal life here, but we can not overcome the effects easily. Perhaps because I was directly in danger and I was about to be killed, when I left the governorate I was about to be killed by ISIS members, I was in their hands, about to be killed in front of my husband’s eyes, a time in which there was no space for any understanding or negotiations, it was very close. That incident affected me badly, I keep thinking about that moment, had they killed me, I would not be here today, and I keep thinking how would my family and people would have been suffering after that

What makes you strong enough to face all these things?
I am a strong person myself. I know myself, I am strong, and my friends call me the iron woman. My friends everywhere, even here, tell me “you are strong, you are an iron woman”. I am the type of  person who overcomes challenges very quickly, I do not forget them, but I overcome them and keep moving forward with my life. I do not like to look back, I like to improve myself, I would like to forget, I would like to change my life for the good. I would like to live life, and enjoy the blessings God has given to us in this life. God challenges us with difficult things in this life, but still he blessed us with many blessings.

What makes you strong the most these days? from where do you get the support?
What makes me stronger these days is my children. I am a strong woman and my children make me stronger and stronger.

How do they give you that power?
They give me the power to face any challenges for them, as I would never allow anything bad to happen to them. Thus, I fight to be ready for anything in this life, do whatever it takes and be strong. weak people can do nothing in this life, they can not move forward.

Before leaving Iraq and before having any daughters, from where you have been taking support from ?
My father and mother. My soul is attached to them and they know that very well. They are my hope, power and support in life. After my parents, came my brothers and sisters and after them my husband came of course and supported me in everything in this life, that was at the beginning of my marriage..

How has the experience that you have been through impacted your life? Did you feel that you matured more because of it? Did it affect your personality?. I mean experiences in life give you some things, some people say they have an experience and that made them stronger or wiser.. How would you describe your experience and what did it add to you?
Which experience do you mean?

The Journey of immigration as a whole
It made me more brave. To  travel that great distance to live safely and to be close to my family. It encouraged me alot and made me stronger to reach my ultimate goals in life.
 
How would you describe the effect it has on your personality?
The immigration Journey was not easy at all!!, it has many negative things and many positive things as well. The negatives are there because mainly it was a very risky journey, it was a journey of death!! So we were escaping death but still we had to face death during our journey. We faced hunger, thirst, having no place to sleep, having nothing you can lean on and having no one who can support you. However, we were brave, we were brave enough to keep moving and thank God we arrived. The journey can’t be described, plenty of challenges and problems. We had to cross the sea and that was difficult. At the end we arrived, we made it despite the exhausting efforts we had to do. If there was any safety back home, we wouldn’t need to go on this death journey.

How did this experience leave you?
I am very strong, thank God. I have faced all the difficulties and made it to the place where I want to live, Britain. Now, I should leave all these memories behind me, I will not forget them, they will stay in my mind, but I need to move on in my life because these difficulties have given me a better life here.

This question would be better if you answer it in English: When you were in Iraq what were your dreams?
In Iraq? In Iraq we do not have any dreams actually ( laughing )

You don’t have any dreams  in your life at that time?
No, because you know, they say, if you are dreaming about work, and having a job they will start telling you: no, you should stay at home and raise your children and this is your actual job. you will stay home cleaning and cooking. They will destroy every single dream and hope you have in this life and that’s what I am telling you. When I came here to the UK I felt stronger as there are more opportunities for women here which makes you more hopeful for work and life, in which you can go out and have another life different from our country or even from any other countries. In the Middle East, you do not have chances like here, and that’s why all your dreams would be about having a job and work, that’s it.

Did you not have any dreams during your childhood?
My dreams were to finish my education and to learn English and I fulfilled both my dreams while I was in Iraq as I studied at University of Mosul and I started learning English while I was living there. My friends and I made a group for English teaching and at that time the only thing that was helping us was the TV programs. I was also thinking about getting married and having kids but I was not in a rush. These were my dreams

What is your future dream?
For now and for the future, I am dreaming about having a job. For my children? Of course I am thinking about them, but I need to look after myself,  as they will start going to school soon, and I believe I give them everything they need so it’s time to think about me. So the only dream I have is to start working sometime soon.

Thank you so much, I really appreciate what you said today
You are welcome

Would you like to add anything as a message for people in Europe which might clear the misunderstanding about the refugees and help fill the gaps between refugees and them?
Yes, thanks

Do you have anything to say to European people?
To migrants or to European people?

To European people to help them understand migrants and refugees
Yes of course, What I want to say is you have to see our life, I mean in our country, you have to see our experience, with the war, the killing, the kidnapping and every detail about the war. You have to think about our life and appreciate it, you have to respect us as humans, not just like migrants . We are humans just like you, and it’s gonna be very helpful if you accept people and migrants coming to your country, and we will be happy living together. This will be helpful for all of us, all the migrants.

Sorry, I forgot to ask about refugees in specific, as you know they have a special situation  in Europe and they are coming from different parts of the world. What a message would you send about them? as I have added migrants when I was asking you by mistake
My answer will be the same, because they have to think that we didn’t leave our countries for no reason, it is not a joke. We left our countries because of wars, our lives were threatened and we had no peace. So they have to be more helpful for us, the refugees, and this will fill the gap between us, as at the end we are all humans. At the end, I want to thank all European countries and the UK for accepting us, the refugees, and to place us here.