Chabela

full interview

Okay, good afternoon. My name is Lloyd Tonmaye. I’m with [redact]… 
[Redact].

Okay. What kind of house are you living?
On a ground floor.

Can you explain, like… Explain.
[Explain yourself more. Who do you live with?]
Oh, well, I live on a ground floor apartment. I live with my brother, my father and my mother. We live… and, well, myself. We all live together.

What is the condition like?
It’s… good. Well, yeah. It’s good enough to live in. Yeah, it’s good.

So, how do you spend your time?
Well, I go to school… In the mornings I go to school. Then I come back home, do my household chores, and then I go out to eat something or I do my homework or go out for a walk.

So, what are some of the things that bring you joy?
Dancing. I dance and sing a lot. And eating out, obviously. And, yeah, I really like dancing and singing all the time.

So, how has life been since you arrived here in Europe? And… What has been good and what has been bad?
[What has life been like since you arrived in Europe? What has been good about being here and what has been the hardest, the most difficult thing, for you?]
Well, it’s an abrupt change, really. Umm… because… It has its good things, like, well, it’s safer. I can be with my fam-, well, with my mother, since we were apart for some time, I can be with my family again… And well, the living standard, at the beginning, is obviously not good because everything is… Well, everything is very abrupt, you suffer hardships, you have to overcome adversities, but it slowly gets better with time and the good thing is that it makes you stronger. Everything that happens to you makes you stronger and helps you move on, because you want to be better, you want to be someone. You don’t want to feel that way your whole life. So, it makes you stronger, going through all that.

Can you describe living here? How it has made you feel as human being?
Well… good in some ways because you meet new people, new cultures, and you see that as an opportunity to move on. You say: “Well, I want to do something with my life and I want to be better.” It’s sad as well, because you walk away from everything and everyone you grew up with, from your family, so it’s difficult, too.

Do you have family back in Colombia?
Yes, a lot.

Leaving them, how does it make you feel? Like… how does it make you feel leaving the rest of your family?
Phew… Well, it’s sad, because for example, my grandpa, the person I love the most, is there.  So, it’s very sad to know that, for example, these holidays, I’m not going to spend Christmas with him – it’s really sad, but… But I feel like I’m moving on, I think: “I have to do it. Everything I’m doing is for them, it’s for… I’m helping the family.” It takes strength.

Could you ever have imagined, like… You’d been able to handle the situation as you were able to be without them.
Yes, yes, yes, yes. Um, I’ve always, always known that. I’ve always felt it inside me, that I am made for great things. So, I always say: “Whatever comes my way, I can do it. I can handle anything.” So, when I realized that my mom was going to come here, obviously, well, not everything was easy, but I said: “Well, we can do this, we’ll be fine, we’ll keep going and everything will be fine.” So… yeah.

Now I want to know about strength, like… Do you think that you have developed enough abilities to be able to… To deal with these challenges and… that you think you’ve always had some skills… Do you think you have developed some kind of abilities to deal with it?
Yes, of course. As I said, going through this makes you much stronger and makes you believe in yourself more because, for example, here I have had to be more self-sufficient, I had to move on, I had to look for a job, had to see how things were done, since I’m not in my country and things are not done the same here. So, it teaches one to be more… I don’t know how to explain myself well… more independent. Well, I have been independent since I was very young, here and in my country.

I want to ask about her past if she is comfortable.
[He wants to ask you about things from your past, if you feel comfortable answering, if not, you can also say it with no problem.]
Yes, yes, yes, of course.

So, why did you leave your country? And… Can you describe what happened that made you leave your country?
Umm, well, we… My dad was in a motorcycle accident a long time ago… ten, nine years ago, or so. And, well, everything was difficult after that. And, well, there was a possibility that my dad could never walk again. He almost died. But thank God everything got better. So, well, then, eventually, we moved to my grandmother’s place. It’s a very dangerous neighborhood, to be honest, but, well, it was normal for us, since we grew up there. We set up a fast food restaurant. A business, a fast food restaurant. We ran it for five years and, well, we had too many debts, we couldn’t profit from it. Meals were always on the table, but we suffered hardships. My grandmother had been living here for six years, and she told my mom to, well, to come and try, see how it turned out. Well, my mom made the decision and said: “This is it, I’m leaving.” She came here to try her luck. She was here… She came here, and two and a half years later I arrived here with my dad. Then, my brother arrived with my grandfather. My grandfather stayed for two months but returned to Colombia.

Okay. Well, how did that make you feel? Like, at that time.
[How did you feel after leaving Colombia?]
Oh, horrible. Horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible… I mean, I was stuck in Colombia, because, well, I was 15 and I was always saying: “I don’t know what I’m going to do with my life, I’m going to keep doing the same thing, I want to try new things, I want to see…” Well, even if I wanted to get ahead and grow, the country’s situation is very, very difficult. So, well, my mom said: “Come on, come here and try.” And, well, I came here. It’s very hard to leave your family behind and, well, go to a place that you don’t know, but, well, you can do it. You can settle in… eventually.

How was the journey to Europe and what has been difficult for you since you arrived here in Europe?
Well, saying goodbye to your family is the hardest. Oh, it’s horrible. I remember that my grandfather went with me to the airport and, since I was supposed to be a tourist, I couldn’t just start crying at the airport. So, well, I remember telling him: “Bye grandpa, see you next week.” But in my mind I was like, [she cries] “Oh my God, I’m not going to see him for a really long time.” And that hurt so much, because with that “Bye, see you in a week” and, well, when I saw… my dad grabbed my hand and squeezed it hard and said “Come one, let’s go, this is for them.” So, well, I had never felt that lump in my throat before, I thought: “I can’t cry, I can’t cry, I have to be okay, I’m supposed to be travelling only for a week and then come back”. So, that was, for me, the hardest thing about coming here and leaving everything behind, even my dog. I cried all night when I had to say goodbye to my little pet, because I’ve had it since I was five years old. And, well, the trip was also very funny because, typical Colombians, we are late for everything. So when we arrived in Bogotá, we had to board the trip to Barcelona but my dad and I started window shopping, since we thought we had enough time, but we had misread the departure time, and we missed our flight and… my dad can’t run, so I picked up my suitcase and started running. The security guard told us: “No, the doors closed five minutes ago. You can’t get on board. You have to pay a $2 million fine.” And we were like, “oh my God, where are we going to get all that money from?” We didn’t have the money, we spent almost everything we had on the plane tickets. And then, thank God, I always say it was a miracle… She said that we had to pay the $2 million fine. We called everyone we knew, trying to find someone that would lend us the money, we called one of my aunts… Then I decided to try my luck with the security guard again. I said: “I spent all my savings to pay for that ticket, I spent my savings I got when I turned 15, from my birthday”. I said a lot of things and the girl kind of took pity on us and said: “Okay, you will not pay. We’ll say there was a mistake, that the immigration office forgot to check all your forms.” And she gave us the plane tickets the following day. I was so happy, my God, if she didn’t help us, we would’ve lost all the money for the trip. So it was also really funny, but it was… yeah.

Should we continue? Do you want to take thirty seconds to rest?
Yes, yes, yes.

Do you think about these events often? And the… number five… Do you think about these events often? When? Is there something in particular that you think about often?
From when I came here to Spain?

[Yes, from the whole process.]
Yes, in this moment, all the time, because it’s December and I’m… I love Christmas a lot, and I always spend Christmas with my family and my grandpa. So, it’s like… A Christmas that doesn’t… My first Christmas without my grandpa. That comes to mind a lot, but I say: “Oh, well, it’s all for him, it’s all for the family.” And I move on, so I try not to think about those things to… so that I don’t get sad.

What do you feel when you think about this… about that… the situation?
Helpless. Helpless and angry. Sad, also. Because there’s nothing I can do. Well, there’s things I can do, but not right now. It’s all a matter of time. So, it makes me sad that I can’t do anything right now.

Does this situation you faced affect you today?
Not really, no.

Could you ever have imagined that you’d be able to handle that situation?
Oh, I cried a lot. I cried a lot. I cried for a full year. The first year was horrible. But in my family, my mom… my mom… she always… I… I keep going for my mom. I say: “I’m doing it for the family.” And that makes me feel even stronger and I want to move on even more and I don’t have time to get sad or think about what I left behind. One has to keep going, and keep going and keep going and keep going.

How were you able to survive through the situation? And, have you created any kind of, like, coping mechanism to deal with any challenges? You know, some people who have challenges…
Umm, I just try not to think about it. I don’t… I try not to think about it. So… if… That’s why, since I don’t think about it, sometimes when I talk about it, I get a lump in my throat and then I do feel bad, because I don’t think about it very often. So, I always try and see the bright side of life. Always. So, I say: “I’m doing this for my future.” People always tell me… Those who know me well always say that I always try to turn misfortune into fortune. So, I always, if something bad happens to me, I say: “Oh, it has to be me,” or I try to laugh about it, well, to… so I don’t bottle it. So, it’s like a mechanism to laugh in the face of adversity. My brother is like me. We grew up like that. And that’s how I am. I try to turn misfortune into fortune, and that’s how I live life in a different way.

Before you left your old country, what was your dream? And I want her to answer “My dream was…”.
If I’m being honest, I don’t really know what I want to do. I never did. And that’s my biggest fear. It’s my biggest fear: not being really great for what I want to be. But I don’t know what I want to do, yet. I know that I want to be someone great, but I don’t know what I’m going to specialize in. I think that my dream… my dream would be… it would be… to be a businesswoman. Honestly, I see myself as a businesswoman, I don’t know what kind of company I would want to work in, but I see myself as a businesswoman. I want to give my mom and dad the best life. That would be my dream: I want my family to be well, I want to be well with myself, with my people and in my country.

So, when you were leaving your home, what was your dream for the future? And I want her to answer “My dream for the future… For the future.
I wouldn’t call it a “dream”, it is more of a goal to create a dream. My dream was to come here and help my mom. Help my mom so that my brother and my grandpa could come here. I wanted us all to be together. And then, together, we would work nonstop and be well. I would like to finish my studies and become someone in life. I want to help my brother fulfill his dream as well. He always knew what his dream was, since he was a little boy, he always dreamed of being a soccer player. So, I… My dream has always been to help my family.

I know you have been through a lot and, um… I wanted to know of anything… any good result that came out from this experience.
Something positive? Well, I… I think that… Well, it does make you stronger, but… remembering what you’ve been through makes you improve. So, I… When I’ve reached my goal and I can say: “Well, I’m already… I’m where I want to be, I’m who I want to be.” And remembering, remembering and reliving all of those moments. Ugly moments, but joyful at the same time. Going through difficult times but being happy nonetheless. I think that… that would be it.

I thank you for answering these questions. Is there anything else you would like to add that may help people in Europe better understand the life we as immigrants and refugees face?
Let’s see, it is not easy, really. And well, obviously, you… you would prefer to be in your country, but not everything’s peaches and cream, so, well, you have to do what you have to do and, well, if you have to come here and fight and sweat, and… Of course bad things will happen to you, horrible things, things that you never thought would happen to you or to your family, but then… I think, you go through all that and then sit down with the same people who were with you through it all, through all that process, and to be able to sit down with them and laugh about everything that happened, “Oh, do you remember when we had to sleep on the streets?” “Oh, do you remember when we had….” So, for me, you have to be strong, for yourself and for your family. Be resilient and don’t give up easily. Yes, there are people who have it worse, with racism and all, but you should fight for yourself, not for the people on the street, so try to be strong for yourself. You shouldn’t give a… I don’t want to say a bad word… you shouldn’t care about what the people on the street tell you. So, picture who you want to be and… and always overcome yourself, always try to outdo yourself… and that’s it.

Thank you very much.
Thank you.