Kateryna Vynohradova

full interview

Hold it like this and speak. … Good. Tell me, please, Katja, where do you live now, who do you live with? What is your situation now? You are now…
I live in Brooklyn near Manhattan Beach and Sheepshead Bay. I live in a very nice place in the apartment. So far my husband came here with two cats.

It’s great. Tell me, please, how do you spend your time? Do you work?
I… Yes, I work, I volunteer, I write, I help Ukrainians informatively.

Share more details, please, if you can.
Well, I belong to the Union of Ukrainian Women of America, to the first brunch. and… we do a lot of activities that help Ukrainians. Or we try to tell the Americans what Ukraine is, and who we are and why we need to… We need to be helped now.

I understood. Tell me, please, what brings you the greatest joy in your situation now? Joy?
Joy… Well.. Maybe, that I … That I don’t hear explosions and that I can walk, walk outside when I want and where I want.

I understand you. Tell me how your life continued after you had come here.
I had a very unusual situation and, apparently, they say… maybe it is some kind of magic, but this is not a magic, it is a very big work. But when I came here, I started from the first day looking where I could… use my knowledge, apply my skills. In Ukraine, I was a project manager, helping startups build their teams and establish different processes. And so when I came here, I started looking. But it was very difficult, because I did not have a work autorization. I started volunteering. My first volunteer organization was the not-for-profit Union of Ukrainian Women of America, where my friend and I revived our first branch. We built all the processes and began to invite volunteers. We started…
We started organizing exhibitions, fundraisings, and began to accept other people, volunteers like us, to expand our…our influence. We began to cooperate with various women’s organizations, like, Irish women or Japanese, or someone else. That is, we did this. We began to learn Ukrainian, English with Ukrainian children. It was the first … the first wave, and we had to help those kids. Therefore.. It was such a serious preparation for this project. And I did a lot. Then I met another not-for-profit organization and..

Sorry, please. Keep going…
Yes, with another not-for-profit organization… and… we volunteered to help them renew their processes after the pandemic. Because… This organization was offline all the time, it is the Brighton Ballet Theater. But in 2022, they came out of the pandemic and changed from online to offline. That is, I helped them revive their school. So and… Then I already received a work autorization and began to work for a paycheck.

Tell me, please, for all this time that you are here, this is for how long, by the way?
Almost two years.

Almost two years.
Wow! Two years! Mamma mia! It’s two years.

My congratulations. Unfortunately for such a price, but anyway it’s kinda a small anniversary. My congratulations to you. Tell me, please, now, if you could draw a line, right? You’ve been here for two years. What can you say? What went very well for you, and what was difficult enough for you? If you think through.
A lot of it was good, I met so many people, I didn’t even think I was that sociable. Because in Ukraine I was like that, well, I had a lot of friends there. But it was not easy for me to get along with others. That is, as for me, to open up to someone there – it was such a big deal. But here, I realized that if you do not open your mouth, do not go out, do not get acquainted, do not network, then nothing will happen. Therefore, it was a revelation for me that here, people are very ready for this, they do not shy away from you, they want to. If… If you need help, then they will help. But you have to ask. And what was bad and difficult? That’s because I was alone. My husband only arrived in November, and before that I was alone. That is, I had to generally adjust my life from scratch, myself. It was very, very difficult. Even today when my friend and I talked – talked, she asked: “Yes, for you, everything was fine with you. Well, such a very smooth… Transition…” But I say “No.” “Well, you already knew English.” Yes, I knew English. But this is not the level that I have now. And that I would have done faster. I would probably… If I knew English at the level I know it now, it would be much faster.

I understood you. Tell me, please. That’s how you live here, yes? How do you feel living here? Can you describe it in words?
I’m safe, and that’s the most important thing. I don’t like a lot of things in this country. I don’t know if I want to stay after the war, when the war is over. But for now I’m trying to find something cool here. I travel, I discover different states, different neighborhoods in New York. That is, I do not sit and wait for the war to end, but I try to love this country. 

Thank you. Please tell me, and your family… The man is here. And your family, where are they?
My mother and sister, and two nieces are on the occupied territory of the Zaporizhzhya region.

I understand you, I’m very sorry. Tell me, please, what are your feelings now in this regard? What do you feel? Due to the fact that you, firstly, are far from them, secondly, you understand that they are not in the best conditions now. Your feelings?
Well, I’m sorry they’re there, and I’m here. I’m safe, and they… I don’t know, because there is no connection with them. We don’t talk. But sometimes my mom uses Telegram. And she writes something. My mother is seventy-five years old. Therefore, I hope… Every person at seventy-five years old, has some difficulties with the use of social networks, and for her it is a very big deal to describe something and say for example: “I’m fine, I’m safe too. How are you doing? Are you safe too? That is, yes. That is, I do not talk to my mother, I have not heard her voice for two years already. 

Are you okay?
Yes.

Thank you for telling me. Tell me, please. Given all that is going on. Could you ever realize before that you can cope with all this situation that is happening and somehow overcome it, live through such an experience? Could you ever think of that? Sorry, please, now.
The experience of emigration. (Thank you) The experience of emigration. In my mind, I was planning emigration. Always. I have always planned to emigrate. To do this, I studied English and studied Spanish. But I did not think that I would come to America, to America. I was planning to live in Spain. In a small village. And let Me… I had the experience of moving and building my life from scratch. When I came from a small village, from my parents’ village, from my parents’ house. Initially, at the age of sixteen to the Zaporizhzhya region. When I got education there, I lived alone. So I got education. And then at the age of eighteen, I came to Kiev myself. That is, there was no connection, no connections. That is, I know how… how to arrange everything, how to organize everything. But I’ve never started abroad. Therefore, this is the first time.

Tell me then, what is your strength? How could you? How can you now?
Strength… Strength is in knowledge, in research. I know how to research processes. It’s a professional thing when you see… You see the situation and try to build a plan. That is, I am very good at making plans in organizations, building companies from scratch. That is, life, roughly speaking, is just another… another organization. That is, how to organize life from scratch, How to organize a company from scratch, I know and understand how to do it. It helps me.

Thank you. Tell me, please, what do you think about the attitude towards refugees in this country? And is it possible that you remember any situations in which you felt discriminated against yourself because you were a refugee?
I… I don’t remember a situation like this when I was discriminated. AND… I don’t remember, but maybe. Maybe it is, but I haven’t felt it yet. I’m just trying to build my career here. That is, I do not know how it will be. That is. It will be possible to talk about this in a year, when I will go through various interviews, and how they will accept me.

But how are refugees accepted here in general?
In general? In general, OK. Because it is an immigrant country built on immigrants. New York is such a cloaca of immigrants. All are immigrants here.

Okay, thank you. Tell me, please, why you left Ukraine. What happened?
A war happened, and the war happened in February. I stayed for a month. I tried to accept that the war would not end tomorrow. And then I decided to leave. It was such a difficult period, because I understood that my husband would not be able to leave, and I had to do it myself. That is, the first train to Przemysl – I bought tickets and left. Well. That’s it.

What did you feel then?
Well, It was very unexpected, because in my head, in my head, I did not imagine it. Apparently, in December, before the war, I told my husband, “We need to make documents for our cats and try to go somewhere in the winter to stay somewhere in the winter. We have jobs to work remotely. So that’s it, something probably will happen, or maybe it won’t.” He said, “Everything will be okay. “So I believed my husband and stayed in Ukraine, and he stayed too. And then, when all that became a nightmare, everything that was happening, I began to feel very bad. I had panic attacks, and my husband told me to leave. I didn’t argue. I just bought a ticket. That’s all.

How did you cross the border? You said it was on the train. But maybe you remember some special moments that happened? How did you get here? And what was this journey like here? Or maybe?
It was a nightmare. It was. It was such a nightmare that… I don’t know. To me… It’s hard for me to describe it all, but… Because I was alone. I had… I had money and I was afraid to sleep because I thought that if I closed my eyes, I would be robbed. That was the only money I had. And that was the only money that we had in our family. And my husband gave me everything. That’s it… There were many people in the train, this trip, the first train to Przemysl. I had a ticket, some people didn’t. People pushed each other to get onto this train with children, with suitcases. I had a small backpack. That’s it.. Well, it was such a complicated complicated trip. It lasted twelve hours. We came to Przemysl, then I needed to go to Warsaw. I needed to go to Warsaw, because a month before that my friend from Kiev left for Warsaw, and already had housing there. And I wanted, before making a further decision, what should I do next, where to go. Because at that moment I didn’t think I would go to America. It took me a week or two to recover, come to some senses there, clear up my head and then move on. That is, I came to Przemysl, and then took a bus, which… There were no buses. There were a lot of refugees, a lot of volunteers, a lot of television staff. Everyone was filming, everyone was crying and the children were screaming. It is.. It was such a nightmare. I was alone. It was a fucking mess. 

Do you remember your inner feelings when this all was happening around you?
I… I realized that I was nobody. That I was a very small particle which was lost and…

Are you okay?
Yes, now.

We can skip.
No, “norm”.

“Norm”?
Yes.. And I really wanted to sleep, because I did not sleep, did not sleep at all the night before. Because when you try to put your life, your whole life, in a small backpack, it’s a very big, a very a difficult process. You don’t know what you’ll need. And for how long you will be away from home. So it was very difficult. That is, the night before, we were preparing with my husband, packing my things, and then another twelve hours. That is, I was more than twenty-four, more than a day, I was without sleep. That’s why I was so stressed… a tense process was going on in my head, well, it was very difficult. So. But I saw that I was, well, I was alone there. It was very, very difficult and scary for me. I had no mobile connection and… But in Warsaw there was. There were a lot of volunteers in Przemysl, and they tried to give us something there. And I have never taken anything at all in my life. I’m not really, well, I’m not the kind of person who would take anything for free. It was humiliating for me. That is, all my life I have been a person who gives, who volunteers. And here I… I have to take something because I want to eat. I want some warm clothes, there, or something like that. But I was so scared that when they offered me something there, some backpacks there, I was just like : no-no-no, I don’t need anything, I don’t need anything. And I remember how I just touched a wall, closed my eyes, and she says, (A volunteer woman approached) “What’s wrong?” I said, “Nothing, everything is fine.” “Well, I think you want to eat.” And I really did not eat anything, and she gave me some pierogies. It was a complete fucking mess. This was something terrible. But I still don’t remember whether I ate those pierogies or not. But it was so.

Tell me, please, do you often recall these events now or do you try not to think about them?
No, no, I try not to recall. But I want to remember.

Are there any moments that are in life now, in your daily life, that trigger and bring you back in that moment?
Hmm… No, nothing like that. Now I am in a very comfortable place. And now, when my husband is with me, in general, all this seems, looks like some kind of a dream. That all this was not with me, and everything that happened in Ukraine… Well, I don’t even read the news. I haven’t read the news for almost two years. I don’t want to hear that. I help a lot, but I don’t want to hear.

I understand. Tell me, please, if after all, even how its now when we are talking to you, if someone talks to you about these events that took place, what do you start feeling?
I… I am sad and I am very angry. 

What… How does this experience affect you today?
Well… I… I became very aggressive.

Let’s go back… How did you manage to get through it all? Where did you find strength then? What was your strength then?
Oh God! It was very funny, but… I… I don’t know. I’m not a very religious person. I did not go to church in Kyiv, especially if… Well, sometimes I went, but it’s not like other people go. But occasionally, on holidays.

I understood.
From time to time, yea to year. But this time I started to pray. I… Thanks to the Union of Ukrainian Women of America, I met the community in Manhattan and began to go to church every Sunday, and sing in the church choir. And after that I was sitting in the church for a long time. 

Thank you. Tell me, please, now, if you recall the period before the war. When everything was like… The old life was there and I think it was wonderful, and everything was alright by you. Do you remember your dreams then? What did you dream of then?
Oh! I dreamed of living in Spain. I did everything for this, I learned the language. And I dreamed of living in Spain. There is a lot about them to travel with a husband and cats. It was my dream.

And when the war started, then you decided to leave the country. What dreams did you have in your head then? If you can, then start your phrase: “I dreamed then of…”.
I dreamed of stability then. I wanted to get my life back. My life, which I had in Kyiv. Before the war.

And in this life before the war in Kyiv. What was your strength then? What can you say about those strong moments that were inside of you then, the moments that you are really proud of?
Well, I was… I don’t think I was a very calm person, I was active. But I had… I had a family, I had roots. I knew that if anything happened, I could go to my mother. And stay there. If something happens, I may not work. Because I have my husband who will watch my back. That is, I was safe, and mentally as well. Financially, mentally, psychologically. Everything… everything is destroyed here. Here I don’t even feel the ground under my feet. It is very …kinda… It’s difficult.

Do you think you will ever be able to return to the feelings you had before the war in Kyiv?
Well, I don’t think I can. I don’t think I can forgive. I don’t know. I don’t know what could happen, that I’ll return back to myself. Because I’m an adult. I grew up here. That is, I do not think that I will be the same careless girl. 

Well, now you said that you have grown up. How exactly do you feel that, because of all these difficulties that you have experienced, you grew up… matured? What has this led to now? Hey, what are you now?
Well, I don’t want to…

The positive moments. Let’s mention positive moments.
Yes… I… I am confident in myself. I am sure that I can tear down walls if I need something. Perhaps this is not a very feminine quality, but I became rather brutal. Career woman. In my head, kinda, I understand what I need to do, and I am not afraid of anything at all. 

Thank you. Tell me, please, now, in your present life, do you have a dream? Can you share it now? If you can also start your sentence “I dream of…”
Hmm.. I dream of peace. I dream that there will be a day when I can hug my mother. 

… We are almost finished. Barely… Just one last question, really. Tell me, please, maybe we didn’t talk about something? And you missed something, what you would like to tell us about? Or is there anything you want to share? So that people who will read your interview will best understand your experience that you were able to live through… Which you experienced. Do you want to say?
Well, I want to say that everyone has their own emigration path, and each story is very different. My story is about… strength. But it’s not because of weakness, when you don’t want to be strong, but you need to be.

Thank you. Thank you very much for the interview. We’re done.