Leila Saadati

full interview

Can you tell me what your name is and where you live? 
I am Laila Saadati. And what is the other question? 

Where are you? 
Now I am in London. 

Can you describe what your job is, what you do in London, where you live and how your situation is? 
I am a journalist and work for a TV channel. I live in the west of London, and I have a good life if COVID-19 allows. 

How is your situation? Are you alone? Or do you live with someone? And also, how do you spend your time? What are you busy with? What makes you happy and upset? 
I live alone because it has been two and half years since I have come from Norway. And everything was new for me here. Before the spread of COVID 19, I wanted to enjoy my life, discover London city and continue my musical career. I did it for a while, but COVID 19 happened. We were quarantined. The days that I don’t go to my work I read books and watch movies. I talk to my family who are in Iran and try to continue my musical activities online. Most of the time, I write. Sometimes I take photographs.

Talk about your writings. I know you do a lot of writing in your job as a journal. But I want to know about your personal writing. 
When I was fifteen and in Iran, I wrote my diaries and I have been writing them till now. I have more than 20 notebooks of diaries that I filled. I continue them. I wrote in Iran. When I went to Turkey, I did it there. And I did them in Norway and now here I do it. I write about my diaries. Besides my personal life I write about world events. I write about my feelings. Sometimes I am upset and sometimes happy. I write about them. When I sometimes want to talk to myself, I bring them up to my notebook. If I have some secrets, I write them in my notebook.

Now you came from Iran here and your feelings might have changed. Living in Europe, what changes have brought for you in terms of feelings? What were happy and sad events? You may have written them all. You remember all of them. 
In my opinion, it is important that in what country a person lives because they are different. When I was in Norway for 6 and half years it was very different from 2 and half years living in London. My feelings were different in Norway. Everything was harder for me because they had a different culture as well as language, as well as weather. People were more alone there. Therefore, here is so distinct. Living in Norway changed me a lot and I became so introverted. However, in Iran, I was an extroverted person. I had a lot of friends and I went on many trips. I changed a lot in Norway. Now in London, I still feel like I did in Norway. I am a little bit different here. I am happier and life goes on easier. I meet more people and live in an environment where people speak in Persian and have a familiar culture. They make me feel better. Life here also passes a lot faster than when I was in Norway. 

So it is so good, at least to replace the friends who we lost. About your family whom you feel homesick for, whom you talk to the most. How is being far from family and friends? You may feel discrimination here? Did you face it? Some people didn’t feel it. Some people felt like here they were treated well. Did you see something here that offended you? Or here is better than Iran? 
We are very close to each other in term of family. I was a child when my mom passed away. After that my father was both my mom and dad. The separation is tough for me and I am not used to it yet. However, leaving Iran and living in Turkey made new friends for me. Also I was forced to travel from Turkey to Norway and lost my friends in Turkey. Then I Norway, I wanted to make new friends and most of them were Norwegians. I made a lot of good friends in Norway and I have contact with them yet. When I wanted to come from Norway here, I was so upset because I was going to lose the family that I had made in Norway. I came here and met my old colleagues and met new buddies. I did’nt face much discriminations here in London. I faced it a lot in Norway. There are mostly Norwegians and Scandinavians in universities, streets cafes and work places. It was really obvious that I was an immigrant and didn’t belong to that place. I tried to be a part of the society, but Norway didn’t accept immigrants. But when they accept you, they accept you for real. They do everything for you and become your family. Because I wanted to be a Norwegian, be a part of society and get a job, I had to study the language. Even I passed in IELTS of Norwegian language and it really helped me to avoid discrimination. In London, I didn’t see much prejudice. Most of the people are the similar and most of the society consists of immigrants. I have a stable job in London which helps a lot, but I didn’t have one in Norway. I worked as a freelancer in Norway which created a lot of discrimination. In London, the situation differs. Norway gave me many things and took many things from me. London have given me many things, maybe it will take many things from me. 

Do you want to talk about your experience regarding the passport? Your experience was very interesting for me. 
After the right wing came to work, it got tougher for refugees to get passport. I had a case in United nations and my residency of Norway was given automatically. There was no need to pass the steps as the other refugees pass. After six years according to the law, it is possible apply for passport and citizenship. When I applied for Norwegian passport, I got a job in London and I had to come to London. The case of my getting passport was in progress. I always wanted to be honest with them because of that I had informed them. They knew that I traveled to London and got a job. And they didn’t issue my passport. They said that they didn’t issue my passport until I went back to Norway. Finally, after six and half year living in Norway, I lost the chance of having a Norwegian passport. They say that they don’t issue the passport until I go and stay there. They say the years I lived Norway is not important. 

Did you regret or was it your own decision? 
Now I have neither Iranian nor Norwegian passport. I tried to get a British passport. No, I don’t regret. The most important thing is that I have peace and I do the job which I love. For years, I traveled with travel document and I didn’t have problems. Passport is not important to me because I don’t see myself attached to any place. Anyway I need a passport to travel. 

Have you ever imagined things turning out this way and tolerating six or seven years of living like this? When you were in Iran, did you think of these days? 
In fact, when I was in Iran, I had a hard life because I had to take care of my family, I was the oldest daughter of the family and my father hadn’t tied the knot. I had to raise my little sister meanwhile study my lessons, work and do my political activities. Over all, I was used to hardships, but I didn’t expect these incidents. I didn’t realize where I went. I didn’t have any plans for these. I was forced to get out of Iran in spring. I didn’t expect anything. I had to stay in Turkey. Then in Norway and Britain. I didn’t know anything and I didn’t plan them. Even right now I am not stable and it is unclear where I will be next year. 

How do you handle the situation? 
I think humans get used to everything. 

Laila, can you talk about your trip? And what happened that you left your country? 
I started my work in press industry in 2002. And at that time the press was named the reformists press. I studied journalism. I really wanted to be a good journalist. I worked till 2006. In 2006, an organization named FDA in the Netherlands invited some young Iranian journalists for a workshop. Others and I were chosen to go to the workshop. I went there and it was a good experience for me. Before that I had been to Turkey, but it was my first time that I had a European trip. I was very anxious. I remembered a meeting was held in Iranian Journalists Association and they told us to keep our Hijabs. We were forced. There are photographs showing us. The news agencies there took our pictures and interviewed us. We were careful to keep our Hijabs and not to drink in public because the police in Iran could put us in trouble then. Unfortunately, Iran’s intelligence office sent a spy with us. Whatever we did, the spy reported us. After a while we returned, they knew about all. I remembered we landed at 2:00 am and at that time the airport [used for international flies] was Mehrabad.  They arrested us. Then they investigated us. They took our mobile phones. We were under investigation. We went to intelligence office in Sedqandan Avenue in Tehran. They knew everything. I went to Red Light Street twice and I loved to make a report about the women who work there. They asked me about the Red Light Street and wanted to know what I did there. Ms. Karimi was the CEO of Zamana Radio and we wanted to meet her. We could not meet her because she wasn’t there. Even they knew that we were wanted to meet Ms. Karimi. We went to the parliament of Netherlands and some other places. they knew them all. They made a huge problem for us. Our mobile phones and actions were under control. After one year they left us and didn’t investigate us. In 2009, a case happened to me, I used to work at a newspaper back then. We wrote news and attended protests against the government. They had started arresting my friends. We figured out that the intelligence office of Iran had made list of journalist and arrested them. I was in the list because of my history. I thought if they caught me, they would send me to prison for years. I lived with my father at that time. I told my father that this case might happen to me. Are you ready to accept the challenges. “No,I can’t look after you or help with the legal procedures. You’re all by yourself.” he replied. Since then I decided to leave and left Iran in the elections of 1388. Afterwards, I came to Turkey. I was in Turkey for a while. Then I registered in UN. And Norway finally accepted me as a refugee. 

What was the year? 
I came to Turkey in 2010 and in 2011 I came to Norway.

Then it must be right after 2009 elections when protests were happening in Iran. Which part of these events, from the time protests started in Iran until you decided to leave the country, your travel to Turkey and later Norway… Can you think of an even or story that had a huge impact on you? A good or a hard scene? Or something that you think will stay with you forever.
When I realized they wanted to arrest me. For two months, I went to the north of Iran and hid there. I was checking the situation whether I came out or not? Then I decided to come out. It was horrifying for me to pass the border. I kept feeling I might get arrested. I never forget it. It was a night and I was passing the border from Iran to Turkey. I was very scared of being arrested. I didn’t know if I was arrested what would happen to me. A large number of Iranian journalists and political activists were in Turkey at that time. Early in the morning, I went to an office UNHCR in Ankara to register myself. I saw a lot of my ex co-workers and friends were standing in the line. We hugged each other and asked the questions from each other. I never forget this scene in my life. 

You experienced a lot of difficulties. What do you think what quality, skill or ability has improved in you? Everyone has their own approach for dealing with hardships. Some go for art and some for writing and some want to forget. What did you do? What skill have you found in you? And how did you tolerate the situations? 
I think I have become stronger than the past. Nothing can defeat me. I see myself as a strong person. Wherever I was like Turkey, Norway and Britain, I wanted to learn the good things of these countries. When I was in Turkey, I tried to improve my Turkish. I already knew some turkish, so I wanted to improve it. Maybe I have even helped the Iranian refugees as a translator. In Norway, I learned Norwegian. I can be proud of myself that now I know five languages. I love to learn more languages. These incidents taught me that how being professional in personal and work is like. I have always plans for my life. I don’t get disappointed. I can be a stronger person and fight. I am educated enough that who the enemies of Iran are. Several years ago, I didn’t know anything about political situation of Iran. I have achieved knowledge and a brighter prospective. I love to work on and love myself. I love to be a better person for me, for humanity and environment. 

Very interesting. What are your dreams now? 
My dream is that Iranians live in freedom and peace. (Crying) 

Say it again. 
I love Iranians achieve peace and live freely. I think that Iran has been taken hostage to some extent. My wish is that Iran be freed from the hands of the hostage takers. 

I know this subject is so sensitive. When you were leaving Iran with a lot of stress and hardships that you didn’t know what would happen to you was very tough. If you go one step back to the time when Laila was a student, what are the dreams of that Laila? If you want to compare it with now. 
When I was five years old, I wanted to be a journalist. I constantly asked my parents about being a journalist. And I wanted to be journalist. I remember the time my elder brother told me that I had to go to university and study a lot. He advised me to read a lot. Since I was a child, I loved to be a journalist. I went to university and studied this major and then I started working at a newspaper press. My dream was to be a professional journalist when I was at the university. I wanted to work for people. It might sound too idealistic but that’s not how I see it. I spent most of my life for this profession. I loved to be a good journalist and help people. I loved to be a happier person. At that time, I was a happier person than now. Yet my dream is still similar to the dream that I had in the past when I was a child. 

So Interesting. It differs for most of the people in different time. You answered this and talked about it. What do you think when you were in Iran, what was your strengths? Did the experiences you had give you more strength? Of course you answered. If it is repeated, say just one sentence. 
I was strong person in Iran. However, I had lots of doubts at that time. I doubted myself a lot. In the recent years, I have had a strenuous faith in me and become a stronger person. My strengths have improved and now I am a stronger person. I love and trust myself more. 

We have talked about everything. If there are anything from you experiences and feelings for the Europeans, you can talk about them. 
The refugees that are stuck in Turkey for 7, 8 or 10 years and the refugees in Bosnia need care and aids. In my opinion, it is needed that Europeans who have had normal life know about the refugees and their situations. They should show sympathy to the refugees. Europeans should give them opportunities. So that the refugees feel themselves as a part of the new society. If the refugees are treated somehow that they feel they are not a part of the society, they don’t take any responsibility. And this hurts the European society not the refugee. 

Thank you, Laila. 
You are welcome.