Macgregor

full interview

I am Gabriela. We already know each other from working together. The project is about a thousand dreams, which is for, to make known the problem of people who are refugees, who are politically persecuted, that have problems in their country of origin and that is why they are in displacement. Hey, in this interview it’s not necessary for your image to appear or for it to be your real name, just what we want is the experience of, well, what you’ve been through and that’s it, you already have the form signed. Be sure that everything we are going to say and do in this interview is private, in the sense that only what you want will come out. You can tell me anything and if at any time you say: “look, this part I don’t, I don’t want it to come out” or “I don’t want it to appear”, we can still make your name a name different from your real name. I don’t know if you have any questions… 
No, all clear.

Ok, so let’s start with the questions. What type of housing do you currently live in here? 
I am now in a rented apartment and there are five of us: my wife and three children.

And can you tell me the conditions of, now, your current moment, your present? 
Right now I’m unemployed, I’m in training to apply for a job. My wife doesn’t have all the monthly hours at work, and two boys who are studying. The two minors. I have a girl with a disability too.

They would be four in the family. 
There are five of us and there is one who has obtained a teleoperator [obtained a job as a telephone operator].

He is working. 
It’s not the same amount of hours, but hey, at least it helps to make ends meet.

OK, I understand. And how do you spend your time? What is your activity? 
I now come to the training from Monday to Friday noon. I try to look for something in the afternoon like handymen, since I know something about construction, “paletería” or masonry as you like. This is coming out, but not much.

Sure, you generate some money but it’s not something… 
Yes, that’s not what I really want. I want stability and that.

And what would be the things that make you happy right now, bring you joy? 
Well, when I can have lunch with my family all together at the table, it’s something that already fills me up a lot. And when we agree to go out then we all go, we share that.

The fact that you have your family here, I suppose, accompanies you a lot, helps you. Has this been the case from the beginning, or did you arrive on your own? 
Well, no, first my wife came. After three months I arrived and little by little we brought each one of them.

Of course. 
Yes.

How has life been here since you arrived? 
Well, the first moment I arrived, everything shocked me, because of course, where I came from – a motorcycle, to see it get on the sidewalk where I walked, well it was scary. If it came very close to me – here, well, it’s normal for a motorcycle to be taken up to park it on the sidewalk, because it’s not coming after you or your things, but because it’s going to park. It’s hard to get used to it, but there comes a time when you give up, you free yourself, you see that it’s another world. It’s like me, when I first arrived I said, “This is paradise”.

Sure, sure. What was the good thing about being here? That you can say: “Well, the positive change has been…”. 
Well, the main thing is security, which is priceless. You can go anywhere, anytime. Okay, considering some precautions, but it’s very safe. That is, you feel the security, security for everything. Because I have seen protests and things that my country at one time also saw and were dangerous to those who protested. Here I see the protests and it gives me the shivers to see the protection they have for those who protest, that is, they take care of them, they protect them. Even if there are people who are against that protest. But there is respect.

A respect, much more civic in that sense. 
Yes, I like it.

There, I, well, am Venezuelan too and I share that part of always having to look back on that, this has changed my life. In other words, it really is true that at some point it is true that if I am distracted and I feel that someone is running after me, after 20 years, I still grab my bag. 
Yes.

This also happens to me when I hear a helicopter, I think “My God, what’s happening, something bad is happening”. I don’t think it’s that they have to rescue someone or they’re saving someone’s life in an organ transport. No. I think “Is there something wrong?” You can’t go, I can’t be calm. 
Yes, yes.

This, this is, the truth is that I think it stays there. 
Yes.

And what was the difficult thing about being here? 
The difficult thing to be here. Well, when I was already here, to be able to send money to my family that hadn’t come yet and to see the suffering when I had already been through it and to know that they were having a worse time. Because every day in Venezuela after I came here it was getting worse. And it’s something that we lived. From the moment my wife came to the moment I came, three months passed and there was a lot of change in the currency with respect to inflation. And there was also a change in those three months that affected me a lot, which is the public transport. My wife never got on a truck to get from one place to another because there were still buses. But when she came, I had that experience and I’m sure my children had a worse experience than we already had. 

Of course, because that was when there was no gas left and there was only the act of riding in a truck that is not for transporting people. There were no buses or lines… 
And you had to hold on by your fingernails because otherwise you would fall. 

It was a fight for, to be able to mobilize you. 
It was, it was terrible.

I understand. This one, how does being away from family make you feel? Because right now you do have your family, your family nucleus, but you will have left a family in Venezuela. Don’t you have anyone anymore? 
Yes, well, it’s difficult because at Christmas or some other long holiday time, we used to get together all of us, but only my wife and children. Not my brothers, because one is in Colombia, another in Ecuador, another in Brazil, in other words, completely dispersed. My mother is in Ecuador with a brother of mine, so it’s something that…

Completely destructured the family. 
Yes. That you can’t give your mother a hug. When my father died, only my mother and sister, who were still in Venezuela, could go, but the rest, the family had already left. 

Everyone had already left. Hey, how does the feeling of not belonging, of discrimination, affect you? Hey, the stigma. How does the fact that you do not belong to this social circle or that you have left as a part of your life in Venezuela and here you are as if starting from scratch affect you as a person? Do you feel discriminated against? You feel like you have any, yourself, don’t you? That others see you, otherwise perhaps you feel that you are missing something in, sentimentally, emotionally, you feel that you are going down or that you have some, some fault or you think that well, because you already have your close family nucleus, that gives you more courage to continue. How, what, how do you feel about, about the displacement, about being here? 
Yes, well…

You feel with that of, of the displacement, of being here. 
Yes, well, in principle, because culturally and other customs that exist here, well, you are shocked by the language or the words or the change. But, you know? When you have your family, the main family nucleus, that’s what keeps you going, regardless of whether you ever feel affected, but you have to keep fighting for the well-being of that home. 

Of course, the sense of belonging is given to you precisely by the fact that you already have your family here. And how can you describe this moment to me of saying, you come home and make comments? I don’t know, “they didn’t understand me saying such a thing or I didn’t understand them”. Because it also happens the other way around, you say “My God, I just found out that this was such”, because it is said differently despite sharing the language. Also being in Catalonia is another, another different language, Catalan. And it is true that everyone, almost everyone, speaks Spanish, but there are times when they don’t have enough words in Spanish to address you. 
Yes, well.

Have you been feeling a little lost…? 
Yes, at first more than lost. So I was. But yes, as a family we always talk and learn together, we laugh a little and we know that well, we have to adapt to the place where we are and even in Venezuela we sometimes traveled to the State, to the Andean states or to the East of the country and there is spoken a little differently. And of course, we were coupling up and moving forward. 

Of course.
Of course, they were short visits, where you didn’t stay but you were on vacation.

Holiday visits. 
Yes, here then, together. The son who is studying, then, helps us a lot with Catalan and all this. When the letters arrive from, from the City Council and all this. He is the one who reads them, helps us and corrects us. And well, together with all of us also the experience we are having daily.

Share it to save the day. 
Yes, yes.

Did you ever imagine that you could handle a, this type of situation? Did you consider…? 
No, I never thought of leaving the country in my life. I was never, ever drawn into my thinking to go out. I always listened to people leaving or arriving in my country, but I never imagined wanting, I didn’t feel that, that. Perhaps traveling, yes, but on vacation, but not staying in a place to live.

To live. 
No, never.

How did you manage to overcome it, survive it, live with it, say “well, this, this moment of saying “you have to do it and it has to be done”? How did you manage to, well, change that chip in your head? 
Well, uh, it’s not easy. I didn’t know what I was going to face, but there is one, there is a phrase from my country that says that “every Venezuelan is the size of the obstacle that comes his way”, and I always had that in mind and even though I didn’t know what I was going to face, I said “well, if another Venezuelan could do this, then I can do it too”. 

Of course, of course. Do you think you developed any capacity to face these challenges or do you think that you always had that ability, strength, mechanism, this resilience? 
Yes, I think I kind of have that resilience because I’ve been through difficult times and I’ve been able to adapt. I think it’s something that I already carry inside. I mean, I adapt…

And what you’ve done is start it up, let’s say… 
That even in training, there are different nationalities, Romanians and those from other African countries and we get along very well. And it’s nice because you also learn from them. Yes.

Of course. In your past, do you think you left your country, why did you leave your country? 
Well, the situation in my country was very, very difficult with the issue of the economic side every day. I built my house and I was leaving a portion to buy materials. There came a time when I couldn’t do it, but only buy food. When this happened, I tried so hard to find a way to find money, because I already said that there is nothing else to do, but to go. It was also joined by the political party, which, not because I agreed with a political party, but because I was, because I didn’t agree with…

The regime. 
Yes, the regime that was in place at the time. On the political side, because they already called you, they branded you as, like you were against them. It wasn’t that there was an opportunity for those people who might think differently, unnecessarily have you on their side or in the opposition.

There is no level playing field. In other words, a job will always be favored by those who are supporting the regime and not to the one, on the contrary, even if they have not verbalized it. 
Yes, there were many, many options for a food bag, but it was conditional. The condition was that you had to show up at the time of their departure, to the government, they did a roll call. And if not, if you didn’t appear on the list because you didn’t show up, then they would remove your food bag. Well, I said, from that moment on I saw that pressure, because at first it was like playing, right? It’s always like playing a little bit, but then it was like an obligation. I said “no one is going to buy me for a bag of food”.

Of food. 
No, I go wherever I want. I mean, I wasn’t going to force myself to go somewhere just because they were going to give me a bag of food. No, I’ve been working my whole life. At 36, I paid Social Security contributions since I was 18 and at 36 the Human Resources person called me to say: “you should no longer pay contributions because you have the necessary contributions, just wait for your age” and that’s it…

It’s enough. 
Yes, but hey, my father also finished after 30 years of work, retired from Social Security. The moment he began to collect them, well, he could survive and support himself with that pension. But when inflation began in the country, that was not and will not be enough for him. Well, he’s resting today because he died and that hasn’t happened to him, but for absolutely nothing. He said, “son, thank God you left.” Those were his words, you know? And that’s hard to hear.

Of course, yes, because the affection is there, but what you prefer is that you, but your loved one is far away than that he is suffering with you. 
Exactly. Exactly.

And this, how did this make you feel? What feeling can you describe to me? 
Well, uh, it’s really strong. It’s like… Yes, well, I think that when I see photographs or videos of landscapes in my country, I remember the beautiful and I don’t remember those sad things. 

Of course. Of course. You focus rather on the positive and on what you have experienced positively and not on this negative part. 
Exactly.

Before this event occurred that led you to leave your home, what was your dream? What was your goal at that time before everything changed? 
Well, my goal was to have my own company and to be able to move forward. Well, I had changed. It was like saying freelance here. I was already installing security cameras and I was doing it on my own as a freelancer. I sold the security cameras, I looked for them because they were imported, I looked for them at a wholesaler, I offered them through online platforms that existed in Venezuela, Mercado Libre and this. And I offered the services. And well, I was already practically freed from everything that is to depend on another, on another…

From a boss or something. You were already your own boss. 
Exactly. I was looking for people to help me install all this and well, my dream was to be able to be there to wait for my age for the Social Security pension and to be able to pass on, to give to my children the company that I had built. 

And now that you are out of your, of everything that was your environment, what would your dream be right now?
Well, my dream is to continue training. Even if I don’t have much time left. I am already 52 years old.

We are in Europe, you live to be 100, you are half your life. 
Well, em, being able to quote what I did there. And well, when I can’t do it anymore, because I can also be freelancer and be able to lead a group of people. I’ve always liked…

Having your own company, basically, that is, getting back to achieving what you had, basically, what you had already achieved. 
Yes, yes.

Before leaving your home country, what was your strength? What do you think it was that gave you this strength to, to, to continue, to keep going? 
Family, family is what pushes you to keep going. They are like energy, gasoline, whatever you, they give you that strength to keep going. To see them grow, to see them develop, study, train and give them much more than you also received at the time. 

So in, in, basically your strength you have maintained it. You have your family here together, you’re still well, helping them and they helping you in this case too. 
Yes.

This, what you’ve been through seems really difficult, do you feel like you’ve grown in some way like, with these experiences? Or can you say that out of this negative you were able to get something positive out of this negative? Do you think that…? I think that, that, that, that, that in some way you can admire yourself. 
Well, I think that out of all the bad things that happen to you, there are always positive things you can get out of it. To admire myself, I want to admire myself when I have already achieved it, to achieve…

You’re working on it. 
Yes. And now I keep fighting, fighting and continuing to help children so that they can develop as people and that they can be inserted into society as a citizen who can share with different cultures. Although they were not born here, they can develop, and that they can have the tools for their age. 

And what would your hope be? What do you say that gives you hope for, to continue? 
My hope. I really don’t need great wealth to be happy. Sharing with the family is something that already makes me happy, regardless of everything that has happened and all these effects that I have had, not only me, but also the entire family nucleus and all the separation that exists from the rest of the family. Of course, I hope that, to be able to achieve that in a moment we can all meet and that we can share that, a meal, laugh at everything that happened because we managed to forget it and to be able to laugh at all that even though these people still exist, because the person who has to give everyone what they deserve will come. 

To make it change, right? So that in the end your country of origin will also change. 
Yes.

Well, that’s it, we really appreciate you answering all the questions. I don’t know if you want to add anything else, if you would like to comment on something that you think is important so that your testimony reflects what the situation is, what is happening. Because it’s important to have this testimony. I don’t know if you want to add anything else. 
Well, yeah, mmm. I know that it is not only Venezuela in the world that is experiencing such a difficult situation. I don’t know why. Hey, we as citizens allow these things when we are the majority and we can remove or not put in any person who is not qualified to lead a country. It is we who must prepare and unite and that our leaders, rulers or those who hold office of a country can be the people most capable of giving it the best, the best stability, the best security and the best prosperity for citizens. Because there is also this in the field of education, to children from a very young age, well, we are going to, we are going to achieve that everyone can all coexist, regardless of what race, creed, nationality, culture you have, but since we are human beings and we can share and we can exchange ideas. 

Well, nothing, thank you. 
Thank you very much.