Mamadou Boussiriou Bah

full interview

Good morning, good morning. How are you?
I am good, Alhamdulillah? How about you?
I’m okay, Alhamdulillah. Thank you for giving us this interview, which will be a bit long. And thanks for your time.
Thanks.
Can you introduce yourself please?
My name is Mamadou Boussiriou Bah. I was born in 1993 in Guinea, precisely in Labé. One region, one city, um. An administrative region of Guinea where I was born and grew up. I did my studies there. Afterwards, I came to Conakry for university studies. I am a university graduate in corporate finance. I am single. I’m not married yet. That’s what I want to say about myself.
Ok. What type of accommodation have you been living in since you arrived?
I live in the delta. These are types of housing granted by the municipality, the New York City Hall for undocumented people. For them. For the time for them to file for asylum and to be able to start again, that’s one thing.
How do you spend your time here? Where do you work?
I haven’t started working yet because I’m not allowed to work. When I arrived, I had to file asylum to get my work permit and also have to wait 180 days before getting those papers. I am waiting for that. I hope that soon I will apply for my work permit so that I can get permission to work, to, to improve my life a little bit.
Apart from the work side, how do you spend your time here?
I spend my time going to school and visiting libraries. And sometimes, go visit friends who arrived here a while ago to really get advice from them on how to survive. It’s not easy because when you come to a country where you don’t know, you have to approach people who know, who, who will explain to you the life here. Who will guide you, who will guide you. Who will talk about the social and cultural issues, all at the same time? I spend my time doing stuff like that.
Here in the United States, what are the things that bring you joy?
The things that bring me joy are. I can say it’s because, it’s because I now feel safe. Because where I was, I didn’t feel safe at all. That’s a. Second, um. Uh, I can say, to be able to go to school. That too is something that, which, which, which, that gives me joy and. It is and is building new relationships. And discovering new things that I didn’t know about.
Like what?
For example. Discover. The iconic places of New York, for example, I can say Columbia universities, it’s a university that I’ve been researching since I was in Guinea. But here I am, I am, I am in New York already. I once went there to visit, to see these things. That’s connected. It’s something that brings me joy, that helps and that opens my mind and that empowers me, that gives me dreams and that, that are there to boost, um, my strengths.
How has life been going since, since when, since you arrived?
I can say that it is happening more or less. That it’s more or less acceptable. It’s more or less acceptable, that’s what I can say because I can find food. Although the food is not adapted to my food that I did not know, no, rather that I knew in the past. I manage to find a place to stay and I, I manage to. Uh but. And I can tell you that since I got here, I can tell you that life is happening more or less. Because. I am living, evn though I am not living very well. And also I. I can go to school. Something that I, I’ve always wanted and. Uh. I am being fed. Uh. The time for me to get my work permit and it’s something really that, that, that, that helps me! 
Now let’s talk about the, the difficulties and the ups. How? What has happened in your country since you arrived?
I can say that one difficulty is arriving in a country you don’t know. A language you don’t know how to speak. You don’t know how to speak like the native speakers. And the discrimination you may receive from people in public places. And I mean that’s it.
Okay, and the good things, what are they?
Uh, the good thing, I think, the good thing is finding organizations which sometimes bring us joy, tell us that we are welcome. That, that, that, that serves us food, and which sometimes help us, for us, for us, to dress us, and, and, and to give us hope. Because when you see all the organizations that do it for free, really, it’s something that still gives you hope! 
Can you describe how you feel living here, in the United States, specifically in New York?
I can say that. I feel joy, joy. Why joy? Because I am a person who has wanted, who has always wanted to travel. It’s a dream of mine. Travel and discover other countries, cultures, and, um, other ways of doing. I am a person who likes to discover, who challenges. It’s, it’s something I can say that makes my fortune, which, chich brings me joy, what. 
Now, you’ve been here in the United States since October. How do you feel away from the rest of your family, your home?
The sense of belonging is something that follows you wherever you are. I feel the absence of the family because I have arrived in a country where I have no family. And where I don’t have parents. I don’t have. I can say that I don’t have too many friends and, well yes, I don’t have too many friends. Uh. It is something that is difficult. It’s a feeling. I have the feeling, it’s, it’s the absence of, you can only say, of the love of parents, of the family. It is something that is very difficult.

How do you feel about the no, the discrimination, for example, the stigma? Sorry for the question, I’ll go back. How do you feel about discrimination or stigma? Does it affect you?
Yes, it is something that affects me. Imagine that you are in a public place, for example, getting on a train or on a bus. You see, the people around you are running away from you, are avoiding you. It’s something that hurts. You are going to ask yourself what, what do I have that they don’t have. Or what did I do that they didn’t do, that they didn’t do, that they wouldn’t do for me, for them to run away from me. You’re asking yourself a lot of questions in your head. Sometime,s it can even affect you morally for a long time. If you don’t act slowly, it can really demote you, which can put you in trouble situations that will really handicap you in the long run and that’s something that hurts. But we live with it. It’s the United States. It’s a place where you meet all types of people. Because it is a country of immigrants. 
Alright. Could you have imagined that you could have handled this situation? How were you able to overcome this void with all this?
I am a person who I can say, who has overcomed a lot of challenges and I also like challenges. I am always waiting for difficulties in situations. I’m not just waiting for positive situations, I’m prepared for negative situations too. I expect very difficult situations and I try to find ways to overcome them. I have, I have always been able to overcome difficulties as well since I started to encounter them. I don’t let myself get carried away. I never give up. And I am a person who, who, who pursues his dreams, regardless of the situations, which are going to happen, which are going to happen.
But could you have imagined facing this situation one day?
I never have expected. I never thought that, once I arrived in the United States, I would have such difficulties. But it’s a challenge for me that I’m going to try to overcome as well.
Do you think you have developed the capacity to face these challenges or do you think you have always had these skills, strengths, resilience mechanisms?
I can say. that I have always been resilient. I manage to adapt and I manage to find solutions too, ways, allowing me to get out of the abyss or difficult situations. I think that if I’m still here until now, after six months, I can say that it’s something that hasn’t been easy, but since I’m still here, um, um, I think that I, in the time that I’ve been there, I’ve been able to really find mechanisms to be able to try to overcome the difficulties that everyone will encounter once in the United States.
Now, in a few words, can you describe your strengths for us?
I have a strength that is that of, of, of drawing on my inner strength. And of. To try, to, to move forward. And also the strength, I can say that it’s because I, I ask, I don’t hesitate to ask people: How do you live here? For example, I can call a friend to ask: How do you live here? What did you do to live here? That is also a strength for me. I ask people, how do they survive or get out of a difficult situations, a very, very crippling situation. And. I can tell you more about the strengths that I can achieve. Another strength as well, I can say that I get it through reading, through people’s stories. When I read a story for example about a person, I like people who have, I like to read the stories of people who have experienced difficulties and who have finally been able to get out of them. Those are the kinds of things that really help me and that give me strength, that give me hope. To be able to one day, try to, to have the hope of one day being able to get out of difficult times. 
Ok. We talked about your challenges. What are your current challenges?
My challenge is to go to university. Do my Master’s degree because I already have my middle school. I was told here that it is necessary, that if I have, if I already have my middle school diploma in my country, I need to transform that here. That is the tradition, to be able to continue. Here I only need to go do my Master’s degree and afterwards, try to, try to, to open my own business. But the challenge I can say is being able to speak English well, okay. And second. Get me a job. And thirdly. Uh. Uh. Adapting to life, to life, to life here. Because I saw that it’s not something that’s easy. 
Alright. Now, you have told me about your strengths, your challenges. What is your dream in the United States right now?
In short, it is, it’s getting my diplomas. A degree from here, from the United States, a university degree. And thirdly, to try to open the business that will be a real, legal business! Which will, which will create a source of income for me and create, and create a source of income for other people as well. Because I’m going to open the business that’s going to employ Americans, or anyone who meets the competency criteria.
Tell me now about the University. In which universities will you be able to obtain your degree?
I am going to get my university degree from Columbia. It’s a university I’ve always wanted to go to. 
In what field?
In the field of finance.
And speaking of the business you want to open, in what areas?
My own business. I wanted to be. I want to be the CEO of my own company.
Yes, but in what area now? Communication, finance?
\In the field, the field especially, in the field of finance, in the field of finance. Because that’s what I know.
How do you think refugees in the United States are perceived?
The perception is mixed. Some are welcoming, and others are less welcoming. And there are some that, that are, that are not welcoming. There are others who think that the, the immigrants or the refugees or the people who came for asylum came to take their jobs. And that’s the feeling that I have, that I have or that others have. That’s really just because, some just came looking for money. What they don’t know is that there are others, that some people are there because, because they didn’t feel safe in their country what, that’s why they’re there.

2013. Now, we’ve talked about your presence here and how it’s going here, um, I’m going to try to address the second phase which is your past. Because who talks about refugees, asylum seekers, migrants is because he fled home, because his life was such a mess before coming here. Now, the first question I want to ask you is why did you leave your country? Can you describe to me what happened?
      Yes, I can describe to you what happened. Uh, I am as I said, I am a Guinean by nationality. A country, I can say, politically unstable. Where people get shot, at every moment, during the manifestation, the marches of, people who went out demonstrated legally, where you arrest people without, without, without, without, without any reason. It is a country of social injustice, it is a country of corruption. It is a country of, of, of discrimination. I can say that it is a country where I have experienced almost all kinds of violence. That’s why I came to the United States. For example, I, after the 2010 elections. The rise of Alpha Condé to power. Every moment we protested for the organization of the legislative elections, something that should happen after the presidential elections, a year after the presidential elections, but which has always been refused and rejected. It is. It was through protests organized by the parties, political parties and civil society that parliamentary elections were held. A bit late. That was in 2013. People had to die, people had to be arrested, and people had to be abused in their homes for there to be elections. It was during these years, during these protests, first of all that I suffered violence. After this violence, in 2015, after the presidential elections too, I am, I finished university, after I finished university it was in 2016. I went to Senegal. Since my country was not doing well and I was, I was, I was targeted. I fled Guinea. I went to Senegal as part of, to save my life. It was necessary. Also, by this opportunity, I was able to take advantage of finding a job. That was in Senegal. I had a job and worked for six months in Senegal. After, the company I work for, they called me to send me to Gambia where I did another year, a month, thirteen days. That’s the time I spent in Gambia. After that, the boss asked me to send me back to Guinea. But that’s something I didn’t want because I was always afraid of being subjected to the same violence, violence that was happening in the country at every moment. Uh. I, I was still someone who was being sued, but through negotiations, I was able to turn around. But not in Conakry. The violence I had suffered was in Conakry. Afterwards, my boss, the boss, my boss wanted to send me to Conakry. But given the situation, because I was fleeing the violence a bit, he considered it necessary to send me to a region further away in Guinea, Nzérékoré. I spent there, from 2000, from 2019 until 2021. I worked for them. Afterwards. After the coup d’état of September 5th, it is, it is a moment when I felt that it was a good time for me too to return to Conakry, to ask my boss for an assignment in Conakry because my boss saw me much more useful in Conakry, more important in Conakry, more important in Conakry than in the region. After he judged that, given the overthrow of power, he considered it okay and necessary to send me to Conakry. And when I left, I thought that there was going to be a radical change. Everyone had hope and everyone thought that the violence that people had suffered in the past was not going to happen again, because we had promises, really. We had a feeling, a feeling of, of, of hope what, that’s what we had yes. After September 5th, there was still, um, the feeling that people had, that the opposite happened. Because given the first decisions of the regime, here it is, trying to rule out certain political parties and also trying not to be precise in organizing the elections, the presidential elections, despite, despite, despite the pressure of ECOWAS.

And your political party was one of the political parties.
Yes, the UFDG yes, was there, I was not a member of the UFDG, but I am an unconditional supporter of the UFDG because I just want this political party to be in power. Because I hope that with this political party, young people can have jobs, people, we can stop shooting people, that there will be social justice. I am much more hopeful with this political party than with the regimes that were there.
How did you feel at the time? When you leave your country, how did you feel at the time?
I had the feeling that, I had the feeling of leaving home, that, leaving my parents, the absence of parents and leaving the country you know. And going to a place that you don’t know. It’s a feeling of absence what, of, that I had when I left my country. It’s something I wanted to do, but I was forced to leave. Given the fear that animated me. I had to leave the country to save my life, elsewhere. 
Ok. How was the trip to the United States?
It was not easy at all because, not only, America and Africa are, they are distant and there are many countries to cross. And these are still countries that can be called, in quotation marks, where there is a lot of traffic, there is a lot of banditry, there is a lot of type, there is a lot of violence, people can suffer anything. It’s a trip you can’t plan for, it’s, it’s, it’s something you, it’s something you, it’s violence that you, you, you can’t imagine. It was not as easy because I spent almost three weeks before I arrived in the United States. During these three weeks, I really went through the ordeal. I have encountered police forces that have withdrawn money from me. I have, I have, I have been discriminated against in some countries that I will not mention here, where I go to get the money that I was sent to be able to continue my trip, that I was refused to withdraw. Because I am African or I am black, whatever. I, really, it’s something that’s still always going on.
Now, during your entire journey, during your trip, is there a particular, difficult experience that you want to tell us about.
The particular situation I can tell you about. About a particular experience that I had and that I want to tell you about, it was the one I had in XX where I spent three days, three days without eating.
What country were you in?
I was in Mexico, it’s in Mexico. It’s a place where, it’s where I was told that I can’t take out money, because I’m African. I can’t go, be in a hotel because I’m African, or I can’t pay for a ticket because I’m African. It’s not because, um, I am. It’s because I have black skin. But it’s not because I am a migrant, because there were some migrants concerned. Because Venezuelans, they were able to withdraw money that came in, but I couldn’t get my money, I couldn’t yet find a place to stay, to go to hotels because I’m black. It is something. It was something that I did not imagine, that I experienced, something that I was not expecting, that happened to me.
How did you feel at the time when you had this problem.
The feeling I had was the feeling of frustration. I was, I was, I was on my nerves, when I saw that human beings can treat others in this way because for me, it was something that I have not experienced in the past. Where I was, I have never experienced racial discrimination. Racial. I went through that and it was something that hurt me and that still continues to affect me here. 
Do you often think about these events that you have?
Yes. Every moment that we explain the route between friends, these events that I have told you that I am talking about, these are events that never leave me.
Is there anything in particular.
It’s nightmarish, nightmarish. I can say that it is something that is always chasing me. Sometimes I even have nightmares because I didn’t think I’d get over it. But it is something that I am, that I have experienced that, and thank God that I am now able to explain. That I can tell you. I didn’t think of repeating it, I thought someone else was going to explain it for me.
Especially with a smile.
Yes, of course, I didn’t expect to tell it.
During these moments, during these very painful moments, is there anything in particular that you think about often.
Yes, there is always one thing that does not leave me, and that is that going three days without eating. It is something that I did not imagine. It’s because it’s something I don’t have, I haven’t done in the past that I have that I’ve got, I got to do when I was in the middle of. When I came to the United States. I didn’t think someone could go three days without eating and still be able to survive. I didn’t think that.
Now when you think about that, how do you feel?
It gives me strength. And there are some things that humans can do, that they themselves did not imagine in the past. There are some difficulties that can be overcome and that no one could have thought that a human being can overcome. That there are no limits for the human being. That’s what gives me. That’s the feeling I have. Because I, in the past, cannot imagine that I could overcome these kinds of difficulties. And when you tell a person, they’re going to ask you how you overcame these kinds of difficulties, so much that it’s something that’s unimaginable.
Now does the situation you have experienced affect you today? If this situation affects you, and how does it affect you.
It affects me positively, I can say that it is positive, that it is positively affecting me today. As I said, I was living it, I, I, it’s, it’s, it was, it was, it was difficult to, at some point, I thought that, that I wasn’t going to be able to overcome it. But if I see that today, I continue to live and I continue to have challenges, that’s it. I understood that challenges are daily. You will have them regardless of your skin color, whatever you are, whatever being you are, you will have challenges. And you have to, you can’t let people. how can I say. Your challenges are yours. It is up to you to overcome them. That every human being will always have challenges. And I’m always going, I’m always waiting for challenges and I’m always going to try to overcome them.
Interesting. Would you have imagined that you would have been able to deal with this situation?
I never imagined that in the past. I never imagined that I would experience such a situation. But it is something that happens. I understood that this is something that can happen. It is something that the human being must expect. And I, I can’t say that you have to be prepared against it, but you always have to be on guard, because it can happen at anything, any time, any person, and any place.
How could you survive all of this when you got through it? Have you created strategies and mechanisms to be able to get out of it? To all these difficulties that you have just mentioned? You know, it wasn’t easy and apparently it wasn’t easy. Now, how did you get away with that? Did you create mechanisms or systems to be able to get out of all these difficulties.
First, I can tell you that I have. I was a strategist. And I see myself here, where I am. I was a strategist because I told myself in my head that to achieve my goals, I had to create means for myself. If you don’t have the resources you can’t reach all your goals. What are the means? I said to myself, what will my resources be? It’s going to school, that’s a way to reach my goals. Because if I want a. For example, to be able to create my business or to be able to realize my dreams, I must create the means for myself. The first way I told myself was to go to School. This is at least one mean.
Uh. I was saying that, I have to go to school to achieve my goals and second, I have to try to, to be interested in the environment I am in. Because I can’t live somewhere that I don’t know. It is impossible. You can’t live there if you don’t know. To live somewhere, you need to know the place. Third, I have to, I have to try to communicate with people. I manage to communicate, not as they communicate, but that I manage to understand myself with them. I think they are. These are ways that I created for myself to try to reach my goals.
Ok When, when you are there, in the United States, you talked about your strengths, your challenges and your dreams. When you were in Guinea, at home, what was, what was your strength?
My strength. I can say, my first strength and the most impulsive one too was my dad. Because he’s someone I love. He is someone who has helped me, someone who put me on the right path and that is a strength for me. That also gives me the courage to satisfy him. Because, for example, if he sends me to school, I want him to be satisfied with me, to be satisfied with me, to have good results, to be proud of me because it is. Second, I can say that it is my mother. She never stopped advising me, she never stopped guiding me, she never stopped looking for good friends for me. These are strengths for me who are impulsive. The second strength, the second strength, I can say that is the fact that I went to school. Because if you see me today writing and reading, being able to write and read, it’s the fact that I went to school, if I wasn’t going to school, I wouldn’t be able to write and read. That is also a strength for me, that I recognize today, that I am able. I see that it is, it is, it is, it is, it is something that is important. The, the third strength was to, to, of I, to be able to, to have, to have finished college. To have finished university and to have been able to get my degrees. That was also a strength for me because it gave me a bit of self-confidence. I have confidence in myself and that’s a strength to go from school to university, it gave me the confidence that I can reach my goals.
Now, you’ve talked about your strengths, which apparently is family, and you’re saying that their goals were your strengths. And now, what were your challenges at the time?
My challenges at the time were, were. One, to finish college. Second, to be able to look for work. Thirdly, to open my own business, something that I was able to achieve. Fourth. Uh. To live in the country that I was. Because living at home is not easy. There are some unexpected situations that can happen to you at any time. That you are not expecting and you are not prepared. I think that this is the challenge that I was not able to do. But that’s also because my life was in danger. My life was more important than anything. 
Knowing your strengths, knowing your dreams. Before leaving Guinea, what were your dreams?
My dream was to get married. And to have children, and to send my mom to Mecca. And to be able to satisfy my needs and those of my family, to create an acceptable living environment for myself. That was my dream. And to, to open my business in my country. Uh. Create a source of income for others. That was my dream.
Well, here it is. Now we are almost at the end. We’re going to try to. I will try to ask you some questions to conclude because I am going to leave you. Before leaving your country of origin what do you describe, or how do you describe your strengths?
My strong point. The fact that I never give up. No matter what difficulties I encounter, I don’t give up. Whatever the difficulties I encounter, I find, I always try to find the mechanisms and the means to overcome them. And I can say that. Second. Second. Second, I can say only about the courage that I have, about the courage to face unknown situations. And to be able to try to get out in these situations. My third, my third strength. I am someone who, who, who does not hesitate to ask when the need arises. It is also a strength for me that always allows me to have solutions if I don’t have them. For example, if you have a solution, I do not hesitate to ask for your solution so that I too can use this solution to get out of the uncomfortable situation that I have now.
Your strengths, apparently, were patience and hope. And do you still maintain these strengths?
I still have these strenght, I can say that they are something that is innate in me.
So you have them. You maintain them… How, how, how do you maintain them?
I maintain them. Uh, I maintain them, because despite the difficulties I’m still facing here, I haven’t given up yet. I still have. I am still hopeful. I have always been hopeful of getting out of a situation, regardless of its nature. That’s it, it gives me a little hope, it gives me a little hope of, of not giving up what. And that the result can only come at the end of, of the actions what.
 Ok, Mr. Bah. I’m going to ask another question still concerning your situation, understand? What you have been through seems to be really difficult and very difficult, if I can actually say it. Do you feel that you have grown in any way as a result of this experience or did you get something positive out of it? [00:46:27][22.8]
Yes, I can say that. Despite the difficulties I have experienced. If I evaluate myself today, I can say that I am, I am, I am grown. Because I came to a country where I had no idea I would come. I never imagined that I could come to the United States. It was a dream land for me. But I never thought I could come to the United States. That is something, I think, that is for me, that makes me grow, because it is a country, a place where dreams can be achieved. To be realized. Second, if I see my English today compared to when I arrived, I think it is something for me, it is an advance for me because when I came, when I came, when I arrived, I did not speak English. But today I can, I can afford to speak English. That’s something that grew me up. And in relation to computing. If I see myself today in relation to IT, compared to before, I think it is still something. It is a step forward for me, if I see myself.
And what are your hopes and dreams for the future now? But now, here in the United States, what are your hopes?
My, my hope. It’s to be able to live here legally. Here, having my, my, for example, having my American passport and second, having a family, creating a family. Thirdly, for me, to open the business that I always dream of and fourthly, it is really about making sure that this country where I am can have bilateral, bilateral relationships with my country in a really much more advanced framework. 
I really appreciate you answering all of these questions. Would you like to add something that could help Americans better understand the lives of refugees here, that is, the Americans who are the United States.
I can say that being refused is something that is difficult because leaving your country, leaving your family, leaving your business and going to another country without being able to know your country before arriving. I think it’s something that’s hard and I think it hasn’t been, it’s not something that’s hard, something that’s easy for people, but over time and maybe that can be acceptable, it’s just a matter of patience. And that they are also, that they are, that they also follow the laws, laws and rules of the society in which they came to be able to adapt better. 
Thank you very much Mr. Bah for taking this time, really. It was not easy to tell about all the difficulties you really went through, but you could have had it with a smile on your face. Thank you so much.
It’s up to me to thank you. Thank you so much.