Mateo Nicolay Torres Arias

full interview

Ok. Hello. 
[Hello (laughs)]. 

My name is Llyod and I’m the one doing the interview and Nuria is my interpreter and I’m here with Mateo. What kind of house do you live in? 
I’m in a room with my mom.

Ok, Can you describe the conditions? 
The conditions are… my mom is already an old person. And she’s doing everything she can to make money. And I, well, am trying for her to go ahead with the PCI course so that I can also get some work, since without experience or without having a PCI, people won’t hire you anywhere. It’s that simple. 

[And in… Do you both live in one room?] 
Yes. Yes, we live in a rented room with two other people, with a couple and with a tenant who is also in another room. Uh, I feel uncomfortable because it’s not something you’re usually used to where you came from, right?

How do you spend your time here?. 
Sometimes I spend it accompanied by my nephews who live in another, in another place, with the same situations for rent, but they are in an apartment that turns out to be a squatter, which is a very bad thing, which they didn’t know at the time. Unfortunately, since sometimes we come to need it, we have to occupy without thinking about a place where we can live.

What are some things you do to bring you joy? 
Uh, I go out with a bike that I have, that I got. Sometimes I leave… I make some long trips to Barceloneta, from L’Hospitalet to Barceloneta or from L’Hospitalet to Badalona to Montgat. And it’s like a way to clear my mind, because it’s always hard to be calm in a society that possibly sees you like that you’re just another migrant. 

[And that’s how it makes you feel?] 
Bad, because. It makes me feel in a way I wasn’t used to. I repeat, I wasn’t used to a situation where I had everything, to say nothing, uh… It’s been hard because you’re surrounded by different cultures, different people, things you don’t know, things you won’t understand very well because of the language and where they have such stereoty… Stereo… they see you with a stereotype view that we are another flaw in the country’s society or economy, that sometimes your country may be classified in a bad way or maybe in some, in some things, it is classified in good terms.

How has life been since you arrived in Europe and is it good or is it difficult? 
It has been difficult, because like everybody, we have all arrived here with the hope of achieving certain goals, certain achievements that one always has in mind, that unfortunately one gets here, thanks to a person, and that person promises you like education, as if to say, that your mother can already be resting and not working because of her age. And you can’t do anything because you’re the youngest. Because being the youngest. I’m like, in a few words, tied up with not being able to experiment, go out, search and live, right? But you don’t think about that. It’s easy when people promise you things that you arrive and it’s all very different from how they were created.

Did you even imagine that you would be able to handle situations, left the country? Thank you to you… 
Can you repeat it to me?

[Yes. When you were in Colombia you… You came to think that you would be able to, to live, like to manage everything you’ve been through so far and what you’re going through now. Like all bad things, like the whole journey, the whole process.] 
As I said, it’s difficult because you arrive with a different mentality. You come from having the mentality that you have a lot of insecurity in your country and arriving at a place where you can no longer see it, or even if you come to see it but not in that same case, not like there, that you couldn’t sit around the corner with your cell phone in your hand. Without a person passing by in a car on a motorcycle, anyone on a bicycle, because there you could barely even see… there were merely scooters or electric bicycles, until, until… Well, more or less since I left, you could see them.  Uh, getting here and all that, being a minor with other thoughts and going through things that didn’t have to happen because one thinks it’s easy and it’s not easy. Uh… and that you have to get by. You have to know how to get by, because if you don’t know, you get stuck and overwhelmed and knowing the economic situation that it’s bad, bad, bad, bad. And at least here we have a small chance of getting ahead one way or another. 

[And when you were in Colombia did you think you would be able to deal with all this?] 
Hmm. No, I didn’t. I didn’t realize the, the, the, How do you say it? I went blank. I went blank, I went blank. The responsibility that I was going to arrive. I didn’t realize that…

[You hadn’t imagined the responsibility you would have when you got here.] 
Yes, because. Well, even though I already had responsibility for a process in which there was back in Colombia, which was a marching band, marching band.

[I don’t know what it is.] 
What is something similar or well, it doesn’t seem, they are music bands as those in the United States. So they do some choreography, some tours.

[Ok.] 
I studied that thanks to a friend. That same friend, it’s… It’s going to be 7-8 months since he was killed. And he was one of the people who taught me, knowing my instrument, he made me know what that “marching band” world of touring bands was, I grew fond of him. I had a good respect for him because he was also going through a process with me. Then I couldn’t imagine thinking about being on the other side of the country. Well, on the other side of the world, not doing my process and looking at other plans, other expectations of being able to do the same. But then to be reached with the message that he was killed, knowing that he is fine in his process too, because after all he, he took over the band, he began to be the director of the band and he… from talking every week, every three days at a time, three times a day we sometimes talked to each other. And from one moment to the next you know that you will no longer be able to comment on your process and he won’t show you the interest in his dream. It’s difficult because it makes you mature at a certain point, it makes you mature very drastically because you think it’s going to be the same, easy, limitless, in the way you propose it in your country. You arrive in another, other places, there are other rules, there are other areas, they are other aspects of life. It’s not easy, so to speak, to live with other people. It’s not easy to live if you don’t have a language of origin. Senegalese, African, South African, Moroccan and Indonesian. There is a kind of languages that I, at the time, I only saw them in social networks and getting to the point of seeing them in person. It’s very different. It opens your mind a lot and it’s like sometimes we’re selfish at a point where we can’t explore beyond, in our country. Lock ourselves in that bubble of living and dying where I am. But you don’t really know what you want. And it’s not easy to be in a country where people will talk to you in a way that’s normal for you, but for other people it’s racism, I’ve been through that. And I don’t judge them. They have their reasons and their karma will come, even if I wish them no harm. Everyone knows that what they are doing wrong is and everyone knows that what they deserve if it is goes well, it goes well, if it goes wrong, well, we already know what is going to happen even if that person shows the best.

Do you think that you have developed the ability to deal with these challenges?
I think that after my friend’s death, that made me gain more strength and courage to be able to move forward despite his difficulties, because he, despite the frequent talk, he always told me his problem and in a few days I always saw him overcome it. And it’s a saying that we Colombians always have. I don’t know if for many people you can identify with this or for many migrants, to be a warrior. Being a warrior, in a lot of things, in a lot of situations that aren’t going to be easy. And one word I have tattooed is Carpe Diem. Enjoy the moment, which is an ancient Greek word between Greek and Italian. Which is a very old way of saying a word that you may be enjoying the moment. You can be enjoying the day, you can enjoy any difficulty that may arise in life. So it’s like a cute phrase that can overload everything and not think about the bad. That, well, I’ve been here in this country for two years. I never thought it would be like this because I got here at 17 years old. I’m 19 now, right now. And it has made me mature. It has made me mature in a very strong way. Because even though you don’t have evil on you, they’re always going to judge you anyway. Because if you have ear stretching piercings, because you  dress in a specific way, because you wear a hat or because you’re Latino or because you’re Colombian. Or wherever you are from, they will always tell you that is a bad thing, but they will never bring out the good in you or they will do it at their convenience. So, out of everything I could learn and be able to have certain skills. I could say yes, I could take over the fact of how to self-improve. How could I give an example of being able to go one step forward and one step back. Because a lot of times a lot of people come up with a thought, but no one tells them, that they have to be ready for a different change to their lives. Therefore, they last a month, two months, or they’re already being returned just because they don’t adapt. Because they don’t have the capacity to open their minds a little more and see a little further, to their limits. So we are in a large part of Europe. It’s not just Spain. It’s a point where you can. Enjoy… No matter if you’re an immigrant, you can be enjoying anything. You are not in your country that is insecure or that you are afraid to go out and be able to do something without getting harmed, in any way. Because sadly I know the people who killed my friend. And unfortunately they’re still there and they’re still doing what they’re doing. And the strongest thing and what shocks me the most is that I had a premonition of how things were going to be. And a week before that thing happened, I already told him (his friend): “I don’t want to know that tomorrow, after you’re done doing what you love most, they’ll kill you”. He was well-behaved. They targeted his brother and him, and his brother was able to survive four shots to the chest. And my friend… One or two on the head. And being here and feeling powerless for not being able to be at his funeral and having to see him through a screen. To see him there asleep, not having his natural skin tone color, that was… It was a change, the strongest in my life. Because I can tell him apart from a very young age. And because of that I want to. I want to pay tribute to his legacy in some way, whatever the cost. I want to get ahead with something that has to do with music. Why? Because he told me: Man, what you have is the same as I have. You are a music lover. What is that? A person who really likes music, you hear the rhythm of something, of a tone that you can only make it feel in a way that you can’t explain, but you can feel it. And I have a great lesson because in spite of him, in any case, he and I were going through a process. He went through the music process with me and I went through the process of helping him with a lot of things, like stop stealing, stop consuming substances that weren’t the best for him and become a better person. Because that’s what he was for. For that, he taught me a lot of things that I didn’t have to be present. Just like I taught him to be a good person, not to give up, not to take the easy way, that everyone gets to do it and where he goes is on the same side. But the way he was killed. It was very unfair.

[Can I ask you uh… It was because, in other words, you left Colombia because the situation was so complicated, because you were, as there was insecurity or you were afraid, because you didn’t want the thing that happened to your friend to happen.] 
Not for nothing, but many people didn’t like him for being that way, a person who easily gets along with everybody, being a cool person, being a person that, yes, he didn’t look the best at people. But if you’re not a friend of mine, well, I can look at you any way I want, without me doing anything to you, without telling you anything, but just one glance would get you in trouble, you know. And to live with that stereotype that sometimes because you’re wearing something, they could be taking away what you’re wearing. Just because it suits them. They caused me a lot of problems, they threatened me in different ways, but thank God nothing happened to me, because in the end, people realized sooner or later that I was good. And in spite of everything, I always look for a way to be good with everyone. But there were people who didn’t like that. So I think that if I had still been with my friend, I would have been one more. Even though I wasn’t involved in anything, just because that’s the way things are. Because, in any case tomorrow, for my own pleasure, I want to kill so-and-so, I’ll do it. And I disappear on a country house or ranch that may be two hours from my capital. To have a good time or to go to the other side of my country, get lost, and rebuild my life. And normal. It goes on. Because the authorities pass. The authorities pass. At protests. It was chaos. It was chaos. If there were false positives. If there were the same riot police officers dropping their tear gas bombs and possibly there were elderly people nearby. They didn’t care. If it wasn’t that, instead of being, uh blank guns. They were real. Or instead of being traumatic, their bullets weren’t made of rubber or anything. They were. Uh. Steel balls. What do we play there? If everything is like that, everything, everything. That’s why the people sometimes get tired, and the people sometimes stay quiet, that sometimes so many of… That already in the neighborhood itself, that you can’t be calm. You have an indifference to someone. You go around the corner and that person knows where you live. He’s going to be monitoring your entire routine. And tomorrow they can go from there, out of the neighborhood. They can be somewhere else and one without realizing it. They can come at any time and they can do something to you where it has already happened more than once. And I’ve seen more than one thing in person. And I was not related to it. In Colombia you can see a lot of things, no matter how much you want to get away. You can see a lot of things. A lot of hypocrisy. You can be with a person more than good and tomorrow they may be getting together with another person and talking badly about you.

[You feel like the government isn’t protecting you.] 
The one over there?

[The, yes. The Government of Colombia.] 
No. Yes, just like that. Like when you are dressing the way you like they already treat you as if you were a pickpocket, as they call it here. They treat you in the worst way. They treat you like if you’re vicious (addict), they don’t get you down from there, they don’t take you away from there, but they don’t know that you have more things than that, that you have aspirations, that you have dreams that you want to move forward. But the stereotype of always categorizing things just because of how you dress or how you are or how things are, of modifying your body with piercings, ear stretching piercings or tattoos. It’s awful because even if you’re a very good person, they’re going to criticize you, and for a person to be the best or to be well categorized, it is having to have a formal dress. That you will never get rid of that stereotype that if you don’t look more formal than usual, you don’t look good. And it’s still happening in 2023 and in this 21st century, that there are supposed to be things that still seem to keep going and getting worse, every day things are getting worse, anyway.

[And do you feel that the government is doing something to prevent violence in Colombia? to prevent the things you’re telling me from happening.] 
If for you to prevent is to be in a peaceful protest and that the riot police themselves start dropping tear gas bombs knowing that they are all peaceful and knowing that those on the front lines have often been calming down the situation so that a peaceful situation can be reached, but the police themselves do not collaborate. More than once they treated me as if I were one of the front line. But I was never associated with them. I certainly was at the protests, but because I wanted to support my people, because I wanted more than one to realize the seriousness of things, that more than one is silent, that more than one thing happened and people are still keept quiet, they are still keeping people quiet and that because a president arrived who doesn’t want to say a name, who has unfortunately tried to do the best of the best, building what he has been able to build for the good of all, to make the majority have a better education and they only see the flaw that being new in the power. From that, they gave him in a lot of trouble, knowing that the country was really bad. And not just because of him. And it wasn’t his fault. The others. The other presidents, what about them? If that’s been going on for a while. So how do they want the people or the country to improve if, at one time or another, that to a president, who has arrived, is precisely being overwhelmed by the problems left by others.

[Can I ask you about the protests you’re talking about. How did you… How did you try to defend?]
Sometimes they took eggs or threw them at the riot trucks, the water tanks. Some are filled with paint of different colors. Some are filled with flour or some bombs. Balloons full of paint. With another, with. With oil. So as to make the substance more viscous. More difficult. Like, uh, Molotov cocktails, which was at the end, because the riot police officers were already getting heavy because they had that shotgun that has a bag supposedly with something soft, which are rubber pellets in a bag, well, with a cushion type and often that same shotgun with the same strong shot. Because that, that was like a pressure gun, of the same strong shot, the projectile instead of being long range, it was already at close range, it was already hurting you. And a lot of times they shoot at close range at more than one boy in the front line or more than one boy out there. Even the Red Cross people also were attacked just because they were supporting them and everything was so hard, because even in the same area where they were supposed to be helping them to cure them and that police threw tear gas bombs at them, they were chased, uh, they even used the horses, in the middle of everything, there was tear gas powder with pepper which was the thickest thing you could feel, because already with the pepper you would drown, apart from the tear gas, which was already a stronger one that would swell your eyes just to come in contact. More than one already, we were already prepared with the suitcases that we had to carry: a gas mask, which it didn’t help you that much, a handkerchief, a white shirt, vinegar and milk. Vinegar for what? The vinegar stops, to keep it on the rag as if you had it camouflaged on your head. To dissipate the gas a little. Once you put on your mask. Uh, milk for tear gas. For those people who didn’t have those kind of diving goggles…

[Yes, yes, yes.] 
The milk was meant to remove the itch from the tear gas. And well, it was always with vinegar to try that. And the vinegar was also good for the itchy pepper.

[And were the protests against the government or…?] 
Against, yes, against the government and also against the police. Because instead of doing their job, the police was just another problem.

[I mean, you were protesting to say that the police weren’t doing their job well, weren’t you? Like they were against you and you wanted that to change, like you didn’t feel like the police were protecting you.]
Exactly, because even if they found you with some substance, they treat you the worst, but if it belongs to the person who is stealing and such, at the moment they take it to the “CAI”, which is a small office anywhere in the neighborhood. Uh… they leave you there for about 3 hours, 5 hours at their convenience. If they want to, they take the information from you, they file a complaint if they want to or they send a summon that is a fine, if they don’t do anything to you, they just leave you there with your background, you are written down there and they leave you free without any charge. Which has happened many times.

[In other words, they do what they want, according to what they are interested in, they do something and according to what they don’t…] 
Yes. If you have, so to speak, the easy way to bribe them, which is what they are going to look for. For them it’s the best. So anyway, if it’s not because of insecurity, it’s because of the police. If it’s not because of the police, it’s because of their uh, because of their leaders who are doing their job poorly. That instead of helping the country, they are making it worse.

[Thank you. (the interpreter addresses the interviewer) It’s very… just very too long… Yeah but you have to know what he is explaining me.]

I know…
[Okay.]

You can’t explain, it’s already time. 
Okay, okay. [the interpreter and the interviewer talk to each other – intelligible]. 

Before the events that led to leaving his country, I want to know what was his dream. And I want him to say “My dream was…”. 
Yes, before leaving Colombia my dream was to continue with the music band, to continue my process because I could play the mellophone. And I wanted to be better. I wanted to be the mellophone comedier, of the melophone line.

What was his dream in the future? My dream in the future… Before he left this country, what was his dream… before it was dreaming… his position and right now. 
My dream now is… Continue with the PCI that I am doing in hotel business. And, try to get some work, since it’s the important thing now and in the moments I have free time to keep inculcating myself with music, whatever it is, because my nephews came here from Colombia and finished doing their job as their profession, so to speak, because they were “playing” as DJs and now they are very strong people in the sense that they are incredible at what they are doing now that it is techno. So they use several mods in various styles and they are seeing the fruits of so much practice, of so much persistence. Because that’s what it’s about insisting, insisting on one problem that may arise, insisting on moving forward, insisting on being a better person, insisting that if there is a problem and you’re getting overshadowed, I insist on being in a positive way. That is to insist for me. It is to be positive despite any difficulty, any problem, any negativity. I go out, walk around and calm down and keep insisting that ups and downs won’t be a problem for me to get ahead. This shows me that if I can exceed this limit, I can exceed many more.

I know what you’ve been through is very, very difficult. Uh, it seems very, very difficult. I want to know do you feel like you are growing in any way as a result of the experience? Anything at all or positive come out of it. 
Yes, because I have already told several people my little story, because despite telling a little, I think I could be telling a lot, but in order not to expand on it, I think I will comment on what has most, hmm… I forgot the word. On what has marked me. Which, well, now I “deleted” the cassette. How was the question?

[Yes. If you believe that all this process and all these experiences you have grown or you can get something positive out of this, such as some learning. Something that made you a better person.] 
OK, yes. That no matter how much people promise you things, always make sure that what they’re promising you might work out, but some time you have to trust what they’re telling you, that no matter how much you want, you’re like flying with that promise. But when you arrive and see the reality, your wings are suddenly taken off and then it’s better to be able to trust yourself and know how to think and do things when they are promising them to you. Because otherwise those things are not the ones they told you. What, what are you going to do if there’s nothing they told you? You go blank and you can do nothing. You’re left in a world without any experience. You’re practically staying in a world in which it’s new to you. It’s something. An unknown world. In few words. So it’s better to give yourself the tools or the boost if they promise you. You are one step ahead. If that promise is not fulfilled, what you had already planned will turn out. It’s a plan A or a plan B. If you can’t make plan B, you can make plan C and so on, but without losing faith in being able to move forward.

[What made you come here… I mean, what is the fact that, let’s say, that made you, your mom and you come here to Spain? Like was there anything specific? Or was it like a bunch of things? Or what was it like to make that decision as a result of, of what.]
Hmm, why we came here, in a nutshell. I saw it from the side that I had been promised education and a job. And my mother was going to be in a quiet house, without working, without making an effort, because my mother is an older woman, a senior lady, she is already 65 years old. Uh, so as a result of that, well, we saw that. I saw the opportunity to continue studying and have a job at the same time and well, I was also thinking about whether things would work out in the future to be able to return to Colombia. I’m still with my marching band process and calmer economically speaking.

[Wouldn’t you be afraid to return because of the insecurity in the country?] 
Uh because of the insecurity. You know. It was one, I went. I was a person in which I was, I was different somehow, either because of school or because of how I was having a good time in the neighborhood or because I was hanging out with people who thought I was going to follow those same steps. But to this day I am still the same person they met, but with different points of view more mature and… little more… calm when seeing any problem. Because of insecurity, I think that’s the least of it. Because it wouldn’t be the same anymore. It wouldn’t be the same because my friend isn’t here. In a nutshell. So like the topic of insecurity and fear, who said fear? Fear can be lost. Because of many factors, it can get lost and I didn’t leave out of fear. I left to see my mom in peace, because even though she didn’t, she didn’t tell me. It was for, for the same reason, for not seeing me as my friend, as the same thing that happened to my friend. Because apart from me. She has my other three siblings who grew up in a world, in a heavier neighborhood. And in spite of that. She doesn’t want me to have seen what they went through. But if I hadn’t lived, I wouldn’t have known what that is. I wouldn’t know what would be good for me, nor would I know what would be bad. I would have had some skill, I wouldn’t have known what evil is.

[I mean, really. What you wanted was that your mother didn’t suffer so that nothing bad would happen to you.]
Yes. I wanted that, my mom to be calm on that side of not seeing me in a coffin so soon. And very young. Because even if you don’t think that… There, even the most well-behaved person can be harmed with a single moment in the blink of an eye, and that person is already with people who are not right for him or her and by bad people, just by not, by not. Because if that person doesn’t like you, they may already be hurting you. Whatever… Whatever the reason, they could be hurting you. Then my mother, because of so much insecurity, and because of that, the neighborhood, after I left, began to become more dangerous, because before I found out, before leaving, I found out that some people were going to get out of jail, who were old people that I had already seen as a child, but because they followed the same footsteps, they ended up where they ended up. And after so long, they were released and the neighborhood went back to the way it was before. More insecurity, more problems, more quarrels. On the two courts where I was already playing, no one can play quietly anymore because with the slightest problem, a plot is formed.

[And how does that make you feel?] 
Bad, because no one tells you that… The neighborhood isn’t like it used to be. Life can no longer be treated as a game. Because people take it away from you and there you are, they take it away from you and you can’t do anything. You can’t give a last message to that person you love so much. So there are times when we treat life like a game. And we don’t enjoy it. So even though I don’t have a certain tool in this country, I enjoy life, I go out, I try to meet people even if they treat me the way they treat me. I don’t wish them harm, nor do I do harm in order for something bad happen to me. I try to do my best. I had undeclared work. I have been underpaid. Other times I have been recognized for my effort. But you’re always going to be seen with that stereotype that… If you’re going to do things. You have to keep quiet. No matter how good it is, no matter how bad. But most people always play and do what, what… You always do things the wrong way because they see you in need and they play with that.

[When you arrived, did you try to request asylum?] 
We tried, but people told us the reason, that if we were here because of relocation, because of threats and that or because we had one, another, I don’t know what I don’t remember. And my mom and I commented that because of threats and that. He said that if we had any, any complaints or reports. Well, we said no and they told us that without having that complaint we couldn’t do anything. You know they told us to come back and come back when we had the complaint.

[So they didn’t give you the chance to ask for asylum.]
No. And in most municipalities and social services, we have had a terrible time. Because, not for nothing, but most of them have been Catalans or those older Spanish people. And I don’t know if they have a phobia or are racist or they simply hate Latinos or just because of the way you are or because you tell them about your situation or because of the way you dress. They already treat you the way they want to treat you, they treat you like a rag and instead of providing a solution they are practically taking away the wings of being able to have something more worthy of having something at least relaxing in the aspect of being able to do things well in a world, in a place where you are irregular.

[Sure, it’s just that. I mean, you guys really were in. You were in danger, weren’t you? in your country. Then you should be able to apply for asylum.] 
Yes, but until recently. A few months ago, my mother got an email, from, from Colombia. And we are, I am supposed to already settle. We approached the Chancellery, we show the email and they say that’s nothing. In other words, we get the mail from the same Chancellery but from Colombia, not the one from here in Barcelona. The one from Colombia. That we are already authorized to be able to settle. But what happens? We showed it here and they say we had to go to a certain office. We went and they told us, without an appointment we couldn’t enter. And right there, we were supposed to enter without an appointment, that we could already make an appointment on the spot and they could give us a consultation. In conclusion, they told us that, that email was false. And that we can’t do anything, without any complaints and without, without any evidence. And you know what I was able to tell that person who assisted us. How am I going to explain all that if we left quickly? If at any moment I could be killed? And to file a complaint, do you know how long it takes? Just for a piece of paper. Which can last a month. Which can last less. It can last for months. And what more evidence? The death of my friend. That there are still the people who hurt him, who hurt him. They’re still free. Are people saying anything to them? No, because they are living and eating from the dead. And here I am working my guts out to get ahead, to have a course, to have something to live with. Because without having experience, without having a permit, without having something, they are not going to let you. Or if they give it to you, it’s going to be a pittance. That possibly what they give you will only be for the room.

[And what do you do like to move on? Because it’s like… These are very complicated situations, aren’t they? And they’re telling you no, no, no, that’s how this can cause frustration, right? What is it that really keeps you going?] 
Hmm hope. The hope of one day being able to have documentation, to have decent work. To have some new friends. To be able to visit my country again and to be able to return, because obviously the issue of insecurity… I wouldn’t like it. Possibly to live again in the future, yes, but it would no longer be the same side, it would already be in a quiet place where I can move around with the certainty that nothing will happen to me. What else? To see my mom well. It’s one of the more reasons I have. And also that I have had ups and downs. And well, it’s going to look really funny. Two weeks after I arrived, I met a person who was my partner all this time and because we had our indifference, our problems and, like any other couple where they split up and distance themselves from each other. But I don’t know, it’s going to be almost two years since I’ve arrived here, just like the same time I’ve almost met her. And yet we still have that bond of wanting to do things, but. There’s kind of that hope left, right? That hope of getting things back together, getting back to being with people, going back to doing what you can do and tasting what you can taste. To all of these well… It’s one. It’s a teaching, it’s something that’s up and down. You will never know where you can be at the top, or you can be at the lowest, but you always have to keep it under control, as one says, to always be able to cope. Even if the doors are closing on you, try to find a solution from one way or another. Of creating friendships, of creating friends also because very few people can consider that. Because they can be about studying, they can be about work, they can be anywhere, but you don’t really know who you’re with. So it’s a topic like, you isolate yourself and focus more on yourself, it’s like when it’s a problem of a second, a third, a fourth, a fifth person, uh, it’s like you don’t interact with people, no matter how much that person sees the problem in you, you don’t interact with people because you know very well what you’re doing. And if you don’t see a problem, I don’t have to pay tribute to that person who is giving me a problem. I have to keep going and if that person tells me a problem I tell them my point of view, because many people always want to mold, to mold you in their own way. Many people always want to shape you in their own way. And that’s the problem with a lot of things here. No matter how much you are doing your thing, you are doing your thing. A person will always want to try to do things “better”, but you don’t really know what process you’ve been through. Nobody really knows what you’ve been through. Nobody really knows what happened to you. Nobody knows if you’ve had a mental breakdown. No one knows if you’ve had a meltdown from depression. Nobody knows if you’re really okay. Nobody knows if you’re really eating the way you need to eat. Nobody knows if you are taking care of that ability to be good with yourself. Because a lot of times we can say: yes, we’re okay, yes, I’m fine. But as a result of arriving and not being with those people or living alone in a room. People make you think about a lot of things, they make you think and see that maybe you are the problem. And you keep thinking about those four walls. What did I do wrong? How can I do this? How can I improve? With several nights of unveiling yourself on how to get a job, how to connect with this society. There are times when you have to be yourself at the end and if that person sees you badly or if that person doesn’t like you the way you are. Don’t pay attention to it because many times we already pay a lot of attention to a lot of problems that we really already feel like… We put a lot of importance on a lot of things. And when they see you like this, like you don’t put so much effort into it, but really if you put effort into it but it’s no longer like your problem, they treat you like lazy. They treat you like… you’re not doing your thing, but you’re really just taking your time, that you can hit a home run at any time. But it’s kind of you don’t want to take that effort, because if I do, I’m going to feel that others are doing less, but I really just want to get their, their process.

[ What is your hope now for the future?] 
To be able to live in an apartment quietly. In decent work. And with a work permit. And to be able to continue studying. And if there are opportunities, exploring Europe, because it’s not small, it’s very big. Many cultures, many languages, many customs, many, mmm teachings. Many dynasties. Aside from culture, a lot of history. In any case, there is a lot of history in which in Latin America there can also be history. But you come to understand because there’s always going to be a nice problem, that what’s the problem? The war, what is the war? The different dislikes of each president. That if there is something that doesn’t look good to his other border friend, it puts him in trouble because he’s going to try to recover a territory in which there is no longer any… because practically that already… Why are you fighting with an invisible barrier? That in that case, if there is a barrier, the atmosphere is a barrier that is protecting us, as it should be.

[Is there anything else you would like to share to come out in this interview?] 
Anything else?

What do you want to have, that would help you with your, with you, understanding the life of refugees 
Well, we don’t have to get overshadowed. That we must always have hope. We always have to persist, persist in the face of any problem and insist on things, because if we don’t persist, if we don’t insist, we are going to lose the battle very quickly. And if we lose it, uh, how are we going to achieve what we have always set out to do, all the way we have lived? Because if I want right now, right now I can be anyone, I can be an ordinary person, which I am right now, because I’m not recognized worldwide, like someone who would say, right? But, we are always going to be X people, we are avatars that everyone has their own way of doing their things. On how to modify. And that there will always be a bad side to how you do, how you talk, how you dress, how you think, what culture you have. There’s always going to be that problem. And you will always be at a point where you are going to see yourself alone or accompanied, or remembering moments or remembering people who are no longer with us. But you’re always going to see you. In a slightly calmer way. With more ability to do things. With more maturity to face every adversity. And at a point where you don’t see that the problem is you, it’s the other one who has the problem, not you. Because you know very well what you’re like and how much you’re worth. And if you know how much you are worth. No one is going to step on you. 

Thank you Mateo. 
Thank you very much.

[Thank you so much for sharing all of this. Really, thank you very, very much. A pleasure.]
To you, too.