Ramadan

full interview

Well, I’m going to ask you to introduce yourself as well. So there you go. 
Ok. Hello, As you already mentioned earlier, I am not going to use my real name. So during this interview, I would like us to use the name Ramadan. I am from Guinea Conakry and as you also said, I don’t want to let people know where I am right now. The only thing I can tell you is my name is Ramadan, I want us to use that name and I am from Guinea Conakry.

What type of accommodation do you currently live in? 
I live in a public house. There are more than 400 of us. Public houses are houses that the government gives to us, to refugees, to asylum seekers, to migrants.

Okay, are you currently working? 
My status does not allow me to work, so I am not currently working. I am not working.

How do you spend your free time?
My free time right now. In the morning, I go to school, I study the language and after the language, sometimes, I go to some African associations to be able to integrate myself into the country where I am. In a general way, I spend my time doing that, going to school, studying, performing on certain courses, joining African associations or things like that.

Alright. Are you happy right now? 
Well, I’m a bit happy, on the one hand and on the other hand, I’m not happy. I know it’s hard to say 50% happy, 50% not happy, but hey, that’s my case.

Alright. What makes you? What does bring you this joy? If you are happy, of course.
There you go. What brings me this joy is because I know why I fled home, Guinea, for. My life was in danger. And I thank God all the people who supported me at the time to go on the tangent, to flee home. So thinking about all that, I can say alHamdulillah, I am happy because they would not have been that, there, the flight from my country, certainly I will be in prison because certainly I would be in prison and who is in prison is not happy. On the one hand, I am not happy, it is because I am far from my family, from my country that I love so much, my family, my friends, everything, everything, everything. So on this side, I am not happy, sometimes it saddens me to be far from the family, from the country. There you go.

Alright. How long ago did you arrive here, in this country?
I have arrived in this country since September 9, 2023.

Was it difficult? 
It was very, very, very difficult to be there. Very difficult, because the path from home to here, it is really a great ordeal, it is a very big ordeal even. I left home. On the one hand, I took the plane, on the other hand, I crossed the sea, on the other hand, I walked, on the other hand, I took vehicles. Sometimes we met the wrong people. Who were the wrong people? Groups that are not controlled by the government of the various countries crossed, and on the one hand also, on the one hand, even groups that are, that are controlled by the government, that is to say migration, the police, the military, everyone was fighting against us. So it was not at all easy to be here anyway.

Alright. And how has your life been going here since you arrived?
Since I got here, it’s, it’s not easy at all, you know, the change has been so raw, total, and raw. Not only did I come to a continent where I have never set foot, I have come to a country where I have never set foot. I came to a country where I don’t have parents, I don’t have financial support, I don’t have the support, almost moral, so it’s not at all easy to be there. It is not at all easy what I am currently experiencing, but well, given the mind that I have since then in my country, since I was there, it is not to throw flowers at me but I have this mind, Hamdoulillah, I have this mind of a warrior, of someone when he wants something, who goes looking for it.

Alright. How. How do you feel here?
Here, the only thing I feel sometimes. At the beginning, I really felt sad at the beginning, but in the long run, I put myself, I told myself in my country where I put myself, I said to myself in my head, in this life, to really be a man, to be really a man, you have to go through a lot, a lot of trials. It’s like the famous example of diamond formation, which is the precious stone, the most, the most precious stone and you take gold, and to get it, it’s not at all easy, the way that diamonds are formed is really hard. Geologists will tell you, it’s not easy at all. And all the great men, be they presidents. In short, great men, before they were big men publicly, they went through things that they themselves could not imagine they would go through. When I said that to myself, it was for a better future. So in a nutshell, that’s what it is actually.

Alright. Earlier, you mentioned your family. Alright. How do you feel away from your family and from your country in general?
In life, there is no such thing. The happiest man is the one who is at home. Who is at home, in his country, with his family. Can you imagine? For example, I, my country, brought me into the world. When I say my country, I was born in Guinea, I am from Guinea of nationality. So I grew up there, I didn’t pay any money, my parents didn’t pay any money for me to study, you understand? I studied for free in my country. Do you understand? Even after my studies, I said to myself now to put myself at the service of my country. It’s because my country itself gave me what. But very unfortunately, given the regime that is in my country, I could not give that. And speaking of family, you know, a man’s biggest support in life is his family. Whatever your behavior, good or bad, the family will always support you. When you go ahead and you, you go back to, that you look back, and there is your family supporting you, you will be the strongest man in the world what. And without this support, when I say physical support from this family. It’s true, we talk about it on the phone, to the mom for example. She says don’t worry, it’s going to be fine. It’s okay. It would be better if I was with them, or even if they were with me.

And when you are in a foreign country. Do you experience discrimination or stigma? 
Indeed, I feel it. Discrimination, stigma, I get it sometimes. But hey, it’s things that happen, it’s things that happen sometimes. Oh well at the beginning, when I received it’s true, you didn’t ask the question, but I’ll take advantage of answering it. I felt it, at the beginning, when I had it, when I felt faced with these plagues, I said to myself Ah! I said to myself Ah, it doesn’t, it doesn’t make sense, it saddened me and it slowed me down even in my various projects, what. But finally, I said to myself, this, this discrimination, this stigma, I must, I must convert these things into physical strength in order to be able to move forward. So since then, even if I suffer it, it means absolutely nothing to me, I live with it and I continue to live with it. I also said to myself that it is the weak person who stigmatizes people. They are very weak people who stigmatize migrants like me. 

How can you describe this form of stigma. What are you experiencing that makes you feel that you are stigmatized or discriminated against? 
The description that I am going to give concerning not only stigma, but also discrimination, it comes down to two things, it comes down to a lot of things, but the essential things that I am going to try to summarize, the first thing, if you get on the subway for example, you can see for example a seat here, as soon as you sit down, everyone who is there, whether they are blacks, whites, everyone get up, sometimes everyone gets up what, it’s like, it’s like you have rubbish on you. Do you understand? On the other hand too, it is, and when I say that, on the other hand also again, it is always in public places that we receive this type of discrimination and also in public houses, where we live. Because actually, you know the difference between migrants, blacks and whites. Whites are more favored than blacks. Do you understand? If you have a problem with a white guy, you have to start from the bottom up, you’re screwed, you’re never right.

Okay, I get it. And how does that affect you, how do you feel?
At the beginning, as I said earlier, at the beginning, it hurt me a lot, it hurt me a lot, it worked on me, so that I didn’t even go out in fact. Sometimes, I need to walk 2 to 3 km and I have to get up very early, walk to avoid going on a subway, on a bus, to go through this what. But I said to myself I am in a country where I have to live with this. Meaning that saying when they’re going to do this to me, it’s going to weigh me down, it’s not going to take me anywhere and I’m not going to evolve. So finally, when they do that to me, I transform all this into a positive force to be able to move forward.

And what gives you the strength to be able to overcome this situation? 
The only thing that gives me the strength to overcome all these situations is my dream. What I went through. What I went through before I got there and what I am going through and what I plan to be. You understand, it shouldn’t be that a very simple thing would slow me down, slow me down in my process, so I said to myself all that, I have to fight this, in a positive force in order to be able to move forward.

And what is your dream?
My dream is to be a guide. When I say a guide, my most ardent dream is to be a president one day. My dream is to be president of my country, to lead my country one day.

Alright. President of the Republic of Guinea. 
Of Guinea Conakry.

Alright. Perfect. And could you have imagined experiencing this situation to the day, whether discrimination and everything that you listed.
Never in my life did I believe that. It’s true, I had this crazy dream of leaving my country one day, to go and study, and then going back to my country. Or at the time, I said to myself I was going to do it and come back with a status in my country. But I am going through, what I went through there, in my country, everything I went through there and then before coming here, what I went through before being there. For me, getting here felt like it was paradise. When I say paradise, I now wish I wasn’t stigmatized because the rest of my, it didn’t start here in the United States, it didn’t start here, huh, it started from my country. Ethnocentrism is one of the things that even made me flee my home, because my ethnicity is the most, the most victimized ethnic group, which has suffered a lot since the time of Sékou Touré. We are 40% of our country, but it is the ethnic group that oppressed during the time of Sékou Touré. Until now, under each regime, except perhaps the male regime, I don’t know about any statistics at all, but the Fulani have been killed more among the various regimes than any ethnic group. You can ask, you can ask, you can question the story, it will tell you. When we take the time from Lansana (Conté), from Sékou Touré, there was a camp called Camp Boiro that we eliminated our elites, that we eliminated some that he considered to be traitors because they did not agree with him. Almost all of them were Fulani. If we take the two previous regimes, with the Alpha Condé regime, almost all the young people who were killed were Peuls. I am not victimizing myself, but I just want to tell you the story actually. Do you understand? And the man who is in power now is following the same path as Alpha Condé.

Alright. And in your opinion, how? How are refugees or asylum seekers perceived in your case, as you said so well, in this country?
In this country, asylum seekers are seen in different ways. It depends not only on the location, but also on the person. Do you understand? In some localities that are pro migrants, they are cool people. They welcome migrants. They are helping… They do. How can I say that? They are giving themselves their best shape, their best means to help migrants. Do you understand that it’s the place but also the people? But on the contrary, there are other places, there are other people, for them, we migrants, for them, we migrants came here to their home, it is not only to remove them from work, that is to say when we are working, that the work was intended for them. And we are a burden for them. And yet, no one in the city chose to be a migrant. If you see that we came to their house, it’s because things are not going well with us. When I say it’s not going well, it’s not economically. We are not economic migrants but we are political migrants personally. And almost all of them are. So they need to know, it’s not because even if things aren’t going well with us, but if our life wasn’t in danger we could manage to get out of it, you understand? But here we came here for them, we are here just for their money, we are economic migrants in a nutshell.

Alright. And you have hope?
I have always been hopeful. That’s what makes me live. I am hopeful that one day it will change. I have hope, one day, my most ardent dream, I have hope one day that it will really change, and that I will succeed.

And do you really believe it?
I am a firm believer in it.

All right, all right. And now, we are currently talking about your current situation in this country. Now, do you think you have developed the skills to face these challenges? 
I think 200% that the abilities, that I would have the abilities to overcome all these challenges there. Years, swords not years, already overcome 50%, but I am sure and certain that I am on the right track. Soon, all of this will be history for me. Inshallah.

Do you think you have the required skills? 
I have all the required skills. It wasn’t an easy start, but psychologically, mentally, I’m ready, and that’s one of the factors that determine whether you’re on the right track or the wrong track. Psychologically you are ready, mentally you are ready, and the rest comes with time.

Alright. We talked about the strengths that allowed you to come to yourself, to be able to overcome this. And you think, in fact, how can you manipulate these forces that you have deep within you and that allow you to move forward. 
The strengths that have allowed me, that have allowed me to always move forward, I can summarize in two, are courage and patience. Courage never gave up on me. You know, in this life, you set a goal for yourself. Don’t worry, how, how you’re going to get there, don’t look at the pain you’re going through. Forget that, your goal is to get to point A, regardless of the difficulties encountered along the way. Convert psychic strength into physical strength and then continue. Now patience. Patience is one of the most important keys to everything we do, especially if you have a dream. You cannot be born today and then become a great man. you see. You have to start with the baby first do things, walk, learn to speak little by little, go to preschool until you are in university, stuff like that requires patience. It’s exactly the same thing, if you have a plan and you really want to succeed in your plan, have the courage, especially arm yourself with patience. So these are my two main strengths that always help me get ahead.

It is very interesting what you are explaining. But now, to go back to the past. Earlier, you listed a few things that made you leave your country. You actually talked about your political views. You also actually talked about ethnicity, if I’m not mistaken. Can you describe exactly what happened?
It’s moments, that’s. It is a really, really hard time that I would like not to come back. But hey, sometimes talking to someone about it, talking about it, it’s going to relieve me a lot, yeah. When I finished studying, before I even finished studying, those who know me, I was naturally a local leader. Do you understand? I like to get people to agree with me, when I have opinions I share, and then I get people to buy into that opinion, what. So at the time, there were so many political parties. I want to be a president. If you want to be a soccer player, you have to have a role model. If you want to be a soccer player, you have to start from very low, at the bottom, to be able to climb what. So in the years 2014, I joined a political party, and long before that, I was not only doing research, I was doing my own analyses among so many political parties at the time, I joined a political party, that I found, that I found, and that I am finding, and that I will always find, before the creation of my political party, the only political party that could take Guinea out of where it is. Do you understand? And that political party was UFDG, Union of Democratic Forces of Guinea, Union of Democratic Forces of Guinea, You understand, I joined this party, I started already, already, to get involved. I liked it, because at the time, I moderated debates in my neighborhood on what topics were ongoing. So, I convinced myself quite a bit to like this party. I became the local leader in this part. So what was my role? It was to mobilize people and mobilize people for this political party and also to denounce all the violations of human rights and everything that follows. So, one way or another, I had become a target for the power not only of Alpha Condé, but also that of Doumbaya, to beat. Because you know, if you want a tree, don’t start with the leaves, start with the roots. They said to themselves, to defeat the biggest political parties in Guinea, you must not only eliminate the president, it is not the same as bringing down the party. But start with the roots, go to the neighborhoods, the local leaders, focus on these people. With these people, you can end the political party. And they believe, they believe. Now, the unfortunate thing is that where I am, the axis is, the axis is really, is almost 80 to 90% populated by the Fulani, my ethnicity. And it turns out that the president of the party is also a Fulani. And automatically the authorities in place and some malicious people who are really, you understand, as soon as you are Fulani and you are part of the UFDG, we tell you “Oh, you are at the UFDG because just you are Fulani, the president is also Fulani”. But I joined the UFDG through this program. Even before I was at the UFDG, I was in a party called Unions des Forces Républicaines de Sidya Touré, which was part of the party. But hey, finally I came to the UFDG. Now, when you come to demonstrations, the axis has always been to target the Funali, since the dawn of time. From the time of Alpha Condé until now, the axis has always been targeted. All the victims from 2010 to 2024, 95% are Funali and they all come from the Axis. So that’s where my problem came from. Join the political party of the UFDG during the time of Alpha Condé. Under Alpha Condé, I underwent some arrests, I underwent some tortures and all that did not make me leave the country. And it was during this time of the Doumbaya too, the same thing was happening again. It’s as if Doumbaya had just finished the work that Alpha Condé started. Do you understand? Eliminate the major political parties and the major political parties that my party was a part of. And also through that, because they already know, they know where their stronghold is, which is the axis where I was born and raised. Where I grew up because that’s not where I was born. Do you understand? So put an end to all that. And also, I had joined a civil society group called FNDC. Which my party also joined. So among other things, these are the things that made me leave, that made me leave my country.

Alright. How did you feel at the time?
I never imagined that I would leave my country like this. And it’s true, I intended to come and study and then come back to serve my country, but my life was in danger. Instead of helping my country, I said to myself, first I should save my life. I have never felt this way. I have the feeling that I had at the time I have never felt it in my life.

And what is that feeling?
It is very difficult to, to describe it. It’s sadness, sadness, betrayal. Because I said to myself, my country betrayed me. It’s not my father, my mother, but the people who ran the country at the time betrayed me. So it was that feeling of sadness and betrayal that I felt. But betrayal in the last degree, and not only betrayal but also sadness.

Okay, I get it. It’s very, very emotional what you’re currently explaining to us.
Mentally, I was dead to myself. Mentally, I was, I did not exist at the time when I left my country.
 
It is very sad. And so, to actually go back to the fact that you left your country. So how did the process of leaving to come to the country that welcomed you now actually went? 
This process, as I said earlier, is I went into hiding to leave my country and from there now, the ordeal was just beginning, because the country where I crossed to be there, the migrant was not at all welcome in these different, these different countries crossed. I remember, there is a country where I’m really going to reserve the right to say the name, I’ve been arrested more than twice, I’ve been imprisoned more than twice, you understand? And now let’s talk about XX because they come, they find you everything you have in your pocket, they take away everything that is in your pocket. Sometimes, I even saw a gentleman there, I was not a victim, but he was in front of me, he was asked for money, he says that he has no money, he was searched, he was even undressed, he was even undressed, naked, he was undressed. And then the gentleman, he was right, he had no money, they found absolutely nothing.

And you? Personally, during this crossing, you had a very difficult experience that you will never forget. 
Yes. The experience that I saw, that I will never forget in my life through my trip there, it was one day, we came, it’s true, I had my passport. It’s true, I did not have the documents to cross these countries. But a UN agreement that says, “Leave the migrants” is as if, if you have, that you know that this caravan is accompanied migrants, let them pass, do not ask for the papers. Do you understand. We came, we were on a bus, we had a gate. It is. It’s Tarzan government. It’s not. Because I was not differentiating, I was not differentiating the logo. And I didn’t know if it was a police force. If he is a police officer or if he is an immigration officer. We were arrested. All the migrants who were in the vehicle, on the bus, there were about ten of us like that, ten, fifteen like that. We went out. When we went out, the gentleman asked us for our various passports, we asked him but why are you asking for our passports? He says, because this is our country. We tell him, we know that, but we just had to ask why? Why are you asking for our passports? Because we are migrants, we don’t live in Syria. Do you know the deal? The man forced us, we gave him our various passports. Then he asked for the money. Do you understand. We had no money, we were at the end of our money. We paid the price of transportation to take us to the border, to cross, to come to the country to the country here. We have no money. We say, “We don’t have any money. The gentleman says “Ok.” Now there you go, you think that. Here, there, it’s not your home. What did he make you leave your house? You don’t have a country. Personally, I asked “Sir, there is no person on this earth who does not have a country.” He says “why have you left home now if you have a country?” I said, “Indeed, we have a country.” He said some words to us there that I reserve to say. I still got so hurt so much that I said to myself it’s not worth continuing my journey. It’s not supposed to, I left it at home. I said all that to myself, now it will pass. The man said some really, really, really dirty words to us there. We kept going. He says, “Even animals are more than us, because animals, at least they come from wildlife, where do we come from?” I say, where do we come from, in our passports you’ll see. He says “You are from Guinea Conakry.” He says “Why aren’t you there?” He even says animals, even injured, they will return to the forests. But you, even if you are guided, you are not going to return, even the animals are more than you. I had absolutely nothing to say. And all that, right now, is my country. It was my country’s two years that caused this for me. Otherwise, this man, in my country, is not allowed to talk like that. He is just a simple man, who is not allowed to speak like this, but who is not allowed to speak like this.

And do you think about these events often?
Yes. At the beginning, when I was there, I thought about that a lot. When I experienced, for example, discrimination in public transport, in public places. But well, I said to myself that I wanted to think about this too much, it would only traumatize me. Besides, that’s not nice, it’s hell for me and it’s not good for me.

Ok And how do you feel when you think about that?
Sadness. 

Is the situation you have experienced affecting you today?
The situation I experienced in my country? Or?

During the trip.
Sometimes it affects me, but it affects me positively. I told myself what I went through before being there, regardless of the difficulties I will certainly go through, I can get out of it. Negatively, it scared me. But well, I transformed it, I converted it into a positive physical force to be able to move forward.

How could you survive? Because what you just said during this trip is very difficult. How could you survive all of this? 
As I said earlier, hope is my dream. You know, being a great man is not easy. What, so there you go. So it’s through my main focus. It was through this, there, that I said to myself, yes, all this, all this, there, it helps me to build myself, and therefore to move forward.

And before leaving your country, did you have the same dream as now?
I still have the same dream. My dream in Guinea was to be a leader. Because I told myself to help my country, it’s not just about being a simple citizen. That’s right, when you’re an ordinary citizen, you can also help your country. But everyone has their own way of helping the country. Some people say, I just want to be a minister. I said to myself, I want to be president in order to be able to help my country.

Alright. We are almost at the end of this interview. So I just wanted to know actually what you went through seems very difficult, very dark. And it is very difficult. Did it allow you to grow in fact, in any way or in another way? 
It actually allowed me to grow. As I said, if someone is a victim of things and turns these things into strength, into a positive force, it is because they have not only helped others, but also because they have not only been neglected, which will allow them to grow. Because you don’t grow up without going through certain tests or what. So all of that, I said to myself, it’s all part of. It’s a part of life what’s in fact now. It’s part of the goal I’ve set for myself.

Now, did it allow you to grow positively or negatively?
Positively, it allowed me to grow.

And what are your hopes for the future? 
My hope remains the same. Making Guinea change, which is my country, is the country I love the most in the world. Do you understand that, one day, human rights are 100% respected in Guinea and that there are no deaths during the various demonstrations and that there is no corruption in Guinea and that the population, really, is just not only about peace, heart, wealth and everything good in this world.

So can you summarize it for me in a few sentences: My hope is…
My hope is to not only be President in Guinea, who will not only, who will allow Guinea to be or to be, to be one of the countries, not to say the best most developed country in Africa. But socially, let it be a country, a very good country in terms of development, let it be one of the most developed countries in Africa. On the corruption side, let there be zero corruption, even if it is difficult to do so, but not impossible, that the population, which has suffered so much since the dawn of time, that this population can finally see the end of the tunnel.

We are at the end of this interview. We really thank you for the time you have given us and for sharing these experiences, these moments and also your dream and all that you have said. And I hope that’s okay. And I know that it will impact a lot of young Guineans, Africans in general and young people from all over the world as well, because your story is very inspiring and really you were very strong and I hope that this force can spread all over the world. And do you have anything to add? 
The only thing I have to add. That is, in life, you can be in your country and you cannot serve your country 100%. You can be outside your country which is really something that is difficult, that you are really very very important for your country, to all people, whether Guineans, to all those where Senegalese, Malians, Africa in a nutshell, Africa, in a nutshell, who were forced to leave their country, who were forced to leave their country, to come to Europe, America, Asia, in a word, Africa, in a word, who were forced to leave their country, to come to Europe, America, Asia, in a word, who were forced to leave their country, to come to Europe, America, Asia, in a nutshell, who were forced to leave their country, to come to Europe, America, Asia, in a nutshell, who were forced to leave their country, to come to Europe, America, Asia, in a nutshell Let them all stay on course. Not that they say, “Oh it’s over, now I can’t serve my country anymore.” Where are you, whether you are, whether you are in Europe, in France or in the United States, or elsewhere in Australia? You can still serve your country. If you have a dream, I know that all these migrants, all have a dream, they must stay on course. It is not because you are not in your country, it is not because you have difficulties in your host country, that you will put an end to your dreams. That’s not a man, a man is the one who goes to the end of ideas. But with the dedicated, it’s really going to happen, to never give up. “Never give up in your life, never, ever, and ever.”