Mohannad

full interview

Hello Mohannad. What do you want to tell us about yourself?
I’m Mohannad Babouli. From Aleppo, Syria. I’m twenty five years old, and I live in Istanbul.

What kind of house do you live in?
I live in a house in a room on the first floor. It is next to a mosque . I live with my friend, who is also my roommate.

So is it a shared house? 
Yes.

What do you do in a normal day? How do you spend your day?
I am a freelance film editor and photographer. In general, our daily lifestyle is slightly different from the usual general lifestyle. Therefore, I have no specific hours to start my day and I have my own routine. This is part of, I mean, part of the life I live. During the day, most of it is actually at home. I mean, through this place, this is where I live and more provides a space for me to work or build or decide what… The question got a little bit confused…….

Did you choose the life of a freelancer? 
Yes It means that it is not only my choice. Unfortunately, the current job opportunities that is available to you is unfortunately not suitable for wasting your time for it. So I mean, time is the last thing I may care about regarding a job. The most important thing for me is that you choose your time and you try not to sell your time. But to sell a service, you sell your product. Don’t sell the time you’re living. 

You will be the only one to control your hours. 
It is true, of course. Now there is a problem in this lifestyle. In the end, you choose it, but it is not easy. I mean, there is no path. You always have concerns about your personal safety and your economic security. This is normal, but this is the forest in which we live. The most related thing to reality….. is that the best one remains….. You can either be the best or lose the game.

So what are the things that make you happy during your day?
Oh. Morning cup of coffee… Seriously, in a moment I understand the small details give you much energy. It also brings happiness when you are excited about a project or you do something that you like. Of course it makes you happy to see those around you in a better place, and when you are motivated, you will move forward heading to better things.

When you arrived in Turkey here in Istanbul. Did you arrive in Turkey and not Istanbul immediately? 
No no

Since the time you arrived in Turkey, what were the difficult things and what were the good things, as well? 
I came out of Syria in 2013 for the first time and I then came back. I kept going in and going out until 2015. In 2015 I settled in Turkey. I moved to many cities, I mean, the nature of my job and where I live was not always constant. Thus, I had to move in many places and had no sense, I mean there was always a feeling that you were ready to move anywhere else. Istanbul is a little bit more stable. In Istanbul, for a moment as everything changes, you feel like there is stability around you in your place.

What were the good things, and the things you felt were very difficult when you first arrived here? 
In all of Turkey?

Yes. I mean, when you first arrived, what was the most difficult thing? What were the nice things that you felt and experience when you were here?
The good things are that you are very much more open to the cultures around you. You didn’t know them before! Of course, there is electricity, there is Internet, there is water, and there are basic elements of life. These things you can’t imagine how they are important to me especially when I came here. After that, they became available and then there is a surroundings culture, this is also a very nice opportunity. This thing is very nice. The difficult things are that I mean you are confused whether… You are confused whether these problems you are facing originate from you or others? This is the most terrible thing in Turkey. That you don’t know if you’re right or not. You always suspect that they are normal humans and you are the wrong one. 

What did this topic make you feel?
Surely your sense of guilt is that you came out and it makes you feel that something is wrong and sometimes nothing is wrong… As you feel about paranoia, I mean, you are aware of this thing and as a result of the circumstances you experienced in Syria, we can not change what happened, and the person needs to do his best… I mean, this is the key idea.

Have you ever imagined getting to this place in Turkey and going through all this before? Have you ever imagined getting to this place in your life? 
Frankly, I have had no idea of any future recently. The first time I arrived in Turkey was a lot…… I mean, my journey was so interesting that I had no luxury to think about the future. For a very short while, I started to say to myself: yes, there is a future… After five years, what will they ask you in the interview is that what will you do after five years when you are in… After five years… Oh… I’ll still alive… I’ll stay alive?? First of all, is it a sure thing that I’ll still live?… The second thing is…

The long term plans were all difficult for all of us. 
Yes yes. I supposed the possibility and I felt that I would not stay here for a long time.. But unfortunately I stayed here for eight years or more… I have been here for 8 years. I mean, I now have papers, so the situation became safer for me as I can now legally stay here. 

With all this, how were you able to complete? What were you able to complete with? How did you get this mechanism that you actually completed ?
Frankly, I’ve asked myself this question a lot before… What makes you continue? I imagine that the rest of the people asked themselves… All people who lived through these circumstances asked themselves this question… I mean I personally feel lucky to have arrived here… I’m lucky to have been living… I mean, sometimes I don’t feel lucky. Sometimes I feel that this is a curse that I kept living… But at the same time you mean……. The thing that makes me face every bad situation I am in is that it is only curiosity, curiosity, curiosity just literally curiosity about what will happen next in the end… I mean you feel like it’s a movie and it’s not acceptable to stop the movie… You want to know the plot, sometimes you expect the plot and it happens… and sometimes I don’t expect the plot and I’m surprised… This is a fun life in which it is fun to stay. It’s fun to stay, not an instinct.

How did you wake up in the morning? I mean, some days you feel that you need a reason to wake up in the morning? In what way do you get up and get out of bed?
Sometimes I end up taking a distance that I’m in a bad place and confessing to my situation…

You have been for 8 years and you are getting up… I mean, the idea is that you stay there.
I mean you are trying to stay there… Finally… I mean I don’t know. I didn’t understand the question.

I mean, the coping mechanism you found… I mean, I used to wake up this morning because I have something to put my efforts into and stay as my safe place.
I had goals recently. I had my studies at university. For example, I should finish my studies. I studied and then changed my major… I studied for two years and then I changed my major… I decided I should have to finish this project, which has taken a long time… Since some time I left Syria I’ve been trying to complete my studies… This was important for me personally to finish a long-term project… But after a year now, I honestly don’t see that there are sometimes reasons to get out of bed. Many are reconciled with the idea that it is possible to stay for a little while. At the end of the day, what makes you wake up is the boredom of staying in bed.

Well, do you expect that you have developed the ability to overcome these difficulties? Did you develop them or did they exist in the first place? Were you able to overcome these difficulties before or do you think that because of these difficulties you have this ability to overcome these struggles and challenges? 
Yes… Certainly because of the difficulties, you learn many things that are important for survival. I mean, you learn, for example, to focus on the things that solve the problem instead of directing your focus towards the problem itself. Yes, I learned from the beginning because of the problem that happened to me. This gives a good motivation sometimes. Sometimes everything is new in the problems that suddenly occur, and you do not have a reference to refer to. There is no coping mechanism at all. The fact that a person is only shocked, I mean.

Why did you leave Syria?
I went to visit my family on Eid. I was in Syria working on my own, I was filming, as I had a camera that I used to shoot a film. I went to visit my family on Eid, because it had been more than 6 months without seeing them. At that time, roads were closed. The Turks want to enter Syria. In the talk, it is possible. It was possible that after that I would not be able to see my family. And I had to find a way to get off. Even my passport. I didn’t take it with me when I last came and went out . I was sure I was going to find a way back. After I went out, the border was completely closed. On my way, I went out illegally by smuggling and the illegal route was then completely closed, so it became impossible for me to return. At the moment I came, it was 2015, and things were not good at home. It was in a moment when you looked forward to your situation and say to yourself that maybe this day you will leave on is the day you will learn that you will write a new life that worths a try.

What was your feeling the moment you knew that you will stay here?
I mean, there was a very great sense of defeat. A great sense of shame. A feeling that It is that you have spent all your awareness since you became aware, and you are focused on one thing but you’ve focused on it for five years. You’re already aware of it. Then I found out that the topic is finished and It is no longer possible for you to be involved in it. Then I felt very sad as well, because I had so much belongings there, for instance I had a camera and I had some stories, I also had footage left with me stored on a hard drive. I was very upset because the first thing I thought about was my stuff, It means because this is the only thing I had at the moment, the only part. Then after a month, a rocket hit and the house was burned out. I felt that there was a sign that it was all over. Everything was over. Everything was burned and I lost everything in an instant. What really helped me that my family is well, as my parents were already out of the country. But this thing was also not easy for me. 

Are you still thinking about these stories? 
I mean, sometimes it comes to your mind and sometimes you are surprised by it. I mean, sometimes the sound of car’s horn annoys you. It happens to you, and It is not up to you not to think, honestly. 

The car’s horn?
Yes, I get more nervous about it. Why I am nervous about it? This sound used to wake me up in the morning in my family’s house. Of course, of course, you will get nervous about it, of course it will occur to you. Of course, there are weird stories that you experienced enough to still affect you so far. It makes sense to keep living it, especially the way we lived.

What we have experienced has definitely affected you, Right?
Sure.

How did you feel that it affected you? 
Hahahahaha, I now imagine that one day there will be an option for people to choose not to be affected. What they experienced did not affect them.

Unfortunately, this is what we call denial.
Yes right, this is the problem. Especially If they say no it didn’t affect.

How did you feel that you were changed? on the personal level. I remember that there has been a lot of radical change for me, for instance. 
But what change are you talking about ?The change that happened when the revolution happened, the change that happened when there was a war, or the change that happened when we came here. Every time you change in a way. Not only once have we changed. Not a single event happened. The problem is with world events, people who are in trauma and others. You are in trauma by one story, and you accept the story, you accept that a major event has happened and changed your life. It is not once, twice, three, four or five, and every time you are radically different, every time you are about to die. A lot was changed drastically. 

Did you imagine that every time you change radically? Have you ever imagined having to endure all these pressures in this way? Have you ever thought of that? It’s very hard to think of. Has it ever occurred to you to think that okay there will be a disaster and I wake up in the morning and get up and go do something? 
It didn’t come to my mind that the story was easy. The story is honestly not easy, but it happens and it changes. How did it affect me? I don’t know but it has affected all levels. And every time in a different way. You think you’re starting to discover your identity clearly. But when you have events in life around you and in your thoughts. You find out that no, my identity is not the same as I thought. My identity is new now, and I am another one who has many things from the one before it. But we keep changing, I mean.

Before leaving Syria, what was your dream?
I don’t know.This answer is very related to nationalism. My dream was for a safe and sound country. To be able to obtain human rights and to live in safety. Maybe it belongs to something bigger than just an idea. My dream was to have a place in Aleppo where I could film the stories and work without feeling of dangers. It was also my dream that the war would stop in a moment. When I came out of Syria, the story was so bad that you didn’t have many dreams in person either. Your dream was to live. It was your dream to keep those around you well. My dream meant that people I knew would be living, and that’s the reality.

When you got here to Turkey and you knew that it is over and there is no hope of returning. What were your hopes for this place? What was your dream of this place after you finished the trauma and realized that it is over and you are here now? 
After I got here. Do you meant what was my dream about that place after I started to get relieved from trauma?

The place is here. Now you have arrived in Turkey. You realized that you are in Turkey, and the future here has started and will continue. What was the dream? 
First, it took me a long time to realize and accept this thing. However, the hope to return one day is still present. So far I believe that one day I will return. But the idea is that after that it became my dream to build myself a place with such a new environment. And that I can try to stay alive. I don’t like dreams very much, and I’m not a very dreamy person. My ambition is very simple and I know I’m trying harder. I clearly have no plans for the future. Honestly, I don’t think the future has anything. It is difficult. I’m not going to stay here to think about my dreams. Most of what I see are nightmares. 

Well, before you came out of Syria, what made you stronger there? 
The idea was that you photograph. What made me stronger was that I held the only kind of justice that was photography. This was a lot of strength for me, as we are seeing what is happening. For me personally, this is an important topic. But the idea is that the act of looking in itself has had a lot of feelings for me. So far, it has had a lot of feelings for me. Being a witness to what is happening, being a witness to people around you and being a witness to their stories, even their shapes and features, is the only thing that has greatly empowered me to be able to take pictures. So far I see that my pictures at that stage. I feel that this is the only thing that tells me that these people were real. The last clue for justice is that I only know that they are real. This thing was giving me a lot of motivation to keep moving forward.

How long has this thing left with you here? 
I mean so far I feel it, but now it’s just more abstract. Now I see the colors, I look at a building and I say oh this is a nice color, I see fifty pigeons near each other, I say this is a nice picture then. I see a window with light on it and a cloud shadow that is scattered on the glass. that Even seeing this thing often makes me respect my day. I respect my day more. It gives me a lot of positivity to get up.

In light of all these circumstances and all these things you’ve experienced, can you imagine that you’ve seen something positive? 
Sure sure. The first thing is that you have gone through a lot of things. Their positives are that they give you a great experience regarding how to survive. At worst, you can be a survivor. It is very nice that you adapt quickly, you know how to adapt to reality more, you know to be social the moment you want, you also know how to take more distance as well. You are forced to learn to know how to deal with yourself. If you did not do it mentally deep inside yourself, who will guide you how to control your situation? Do you know how to face your problems? If you don’t , thet it feels like you are going to die and burn out due to overthinking. It means that you will be forced to learn how to deal with yourself mentally. This story is very positive. I mean, it is necessary.

I already know you hate dreams. 
Yes.

But can you tell me your current dream?
My dream is that the interview ends. Hahahaha. No, I’m kidding, for sure. So it is my dream to see people in a better place, especially those who I feel deserve a better place. 

And yourself? 
I am one of them. I am the first of them.

You are the sweetest one. 
It means finding myself in a place where I can create an illusion and believe it, an illusion that I am safe and I affect those around you in some way or another. This is an illusion I feel that his name is safety. What’s his name is that you’re only doing a good thing. But one day I want to believe it, and seriously be in a moment I feel that it is true. So I can stop consulting myself with stories and stop questioning stories. I am sure to be confident in the stories, especially to rest. Rest because the conditions are comfortable to me. You are comfortable with your confidence in what you are doing. so you have a never-ending motivation and this is something I’m sure of and not a dream. But I didn’t tell you I was dreaming about it.

Yes, you have said that to me. (Friendly laughter).
Oh that is so nice.

Would you like to add anything? Thank you very much for the information and nice things you shared with us. 
(Muhannad could not hold back his tears) Honestly, we talked a lot about these stories, and I enjoyed the interview. 

Thank you
Thanks