Waseem

full interview

Hi Waseem, how are you today?
I’m good.

How was your day? Is everything okay?
Yeah.

So good, today we are with Waseem and [inaudible] then we’re gonna ask some questions. So what kind of housing do you live in?
Apartment. And I live by myself. Do you want particular information about the house?

It’s up to you, like, how did you for in the house conditions? Everything is fine, do you think?
Yeah, it’s good. The location is very good. I think it’s my size, it’s spacious, it has nice design. It’s quite old, the only downside is cold and old, but I like old stuff generally.

So are you basically covering all everything, right? You’re not getting support from anyone [overspeaking]?
No, I’m covering everything, yes.

Okay, so how do you spend your time, like every day or generally?
So it depends. So there is, like, before COVID and after COVID. This question is very different. Now, with the COVID situation, we have, like, a lockdown and then this lockdown we can’t do much. Mostly I’m spending my time – when I work, I’m working from home right now. So just having meetings on Zoom and things like that, and writing reports, sending emails, this is at work. Then after that, going for a run, walking my dog, playing some music and watching some films, things like that. Most, all these activities are like alone activities, something I do alone because of the COVID situation. But I think if it wasn’t COVID, I would have seen my friends. Maybe going to pubs, going for music jams, going to gigs, traveling, something like that.

What are some things that bring you joy? Like you actually said a few things but are these things that bring you joy or like something that you want to say more?
Brings me joy. That’s an interesting question. I think, like in the activities that I do, what are the things that brings me joy? I like traveling, for example, is one of the things that brings me joy, definitely. And I don’t mind doing it alone or with other people. I just like exploring new places for me, walking in the street in new places, learning about the culture in general. This thing brings me joy, definitely. Experiencing new food, something like that.

How has life been since you arrived in Europe, and what has been good being here or what has been difficult being here?
My life has been going upside down since I came to Europe, to be totally honest. One of the things it’s something personal with me, like I used to live more in a luxurious life back home, and this is because of my family support and friends’ support, it was just to know many people, and I took things for granted, that this is how things are. I was known. Everyone knows who I am, so I got many things for granted. I think coming to Europe was the first step where I was. I had to start from the beginning, like the way that I see it as like things that my grandfather has did. It’s like just starting from scratch. Nobody knows who I am. It’s a new culture, different climate, different language. So things are very different and, of course, is an addition to the burden of the war back home and being away from friends and family. So all of this combination together, it made it very difficult. Just the new challenge for me that I haven’t experienced before. In that sense, Europe has been quite difficult. Of course, there are some nice things as well, because I think I’ve become more open to new experiences, new cultures, new things like that, that I wouldn’t have exposure to if I had stayed back home. And that by itself I think it’s very nice. It’s very easy to travel here, very easy to check music scenes, being connected to the wider world, I think is quite nice. And also Europe has very nice culture and very nice history that is easily accessible. So it’s nice to check those as well. So it has been good and bad.

Okay. How it make you feel, for example, how about your feelings? Because coming in from different countries and as I experienced myself, even though if you’re not coming from war and kind of integration is a long and difficult process. So you mention a lot of things, and that’s also kind of part of you feeling this as well, but exactly what your feelings. How do you feel about it and how it makes you feel?
My feelings, to be honest, changed over the years, like it hasn’t been consistent. My first year I came as a student. I did a master’s here and that was easier than the following years because I was studying internationally in a university, which has many international students, so I didn’t feel as strange as after. Because after that, people went back home and I understood more that I am a stranger than when I was in university. So the feelings has changed over that. I think that most prominent feeling that always has happened is there was a feeling of guilt in a way, and the guilt is because there was like a conflict going on in my country, I mean it is still in some ways, just like being worried all the time about your family but also about your country’s. It’s like, you feel guilty if you want to be happy, actually you want to enjoy something, you feel guilty because back home things are not good. I think this is the hardest thing that I have experienced, there are like a variety of things but this is, I think, the most prominent one, is guilt. It got better over the years after I understood how it is, and it is not necessarily people back home are in better position emotionally. So yeah, like guilt is one of them, worry. I think there is also, at some points I felt alienation, like being out of place. And that’s also another thing that I felt, and especially because you’re worried – like your mind is, like, in somewhere else and then, like, I’ll be working or in a party but I’m not thinking, and my head somewhere else. And that feels that I’m de-attached from reality in some ways. So, yeah, that’s also another feeling. But there is some positive feelings as well. I mean, it’s not all so, there is some excitement about new things, about having more self-understanding I think. There is some excitement and generally so it’s not only kind of negative feelings, but it’s just different ones.

Sounds amazing. You are coping in different ways, positive and negative. So let’s move on, because you’re far from your family and then I don’t know where is the rest of your family. If you have a connection with them since you are here, have you seen them? How are you feeling, being away from home, family?
I think it’s not easy because I wasn’t used to it, like, I just came and I wasn’t able to go back since I came here. And yeah, there is definitely some emotional need that you get supported from your family that’s not available. So you feel like there’s something missing and I think this is always the feeling, that there is some sort of emotional support that you’re supposed to get from somewhere, but you don’t get. So I think that’s something that I have been experiencing. Of course, by time you get used to it more. I see my brother quite a lot because he lives in Sweden, but the rest of family, I was able to see them one time since seven years and it was good, like, it was quite strange, because it’s, like, I kinda forget how it’s like to be with family and how nice it is and sometimes how annoying it is, so it is, like, different things, but yeah, I was able to see them one time, we traveled to Malaysia, actually, because that was the only country that we could have mutual visa acceptance to go to. And it was good, but yeah, at the same time it’s hard because you feel there’s some sort of support that you don’t actually get.

Have you ever feel that you have been discriminated or you felt yourself as a stranger?
Definitely a lot, and not intentionally necessarily. It’s not like people intentionally want to discriminate me, and that’s most of the time, but I don’t blame them in that sense. But yes, because I feel stranger. It’s kind of natural to feel stranger because you’re experiencing something that’s different from what the people around you are experiencing. And it’s not very easy for people to understand that. For example, being at work some time, being asked certain questions, like things, for example, are so local. Like jokes for example, like local references. Not everyone understands that you’re not from here. For example, sometimes being asked, “Are you going home for Christmas?” Things like that, you know, “Are you seeing your family?” You feel like, okay, these people don’t know anything about what you’re going through. And yeah, I think I feel stranger as well, because it’s something about cultural differences. I think how emotionally you deal with people is different with the culture. I came from Iranian cultural, which is, I think, more emotionally open. And people just express a lot and you expect the other to do the same. So it’s been quite hard to kind of understand and be comfortable. I think with work environment, it’s just challenging because it’s different cultures. So I felt kinda, not intentionally from people but yeah, I’m discriminated against.

Could you ever imagine that you would be able to handle the situation that would happen to you, about your feeling and changing place, and then all difficulties. And you’re alone by yourself and so, could you imagine that?
You mean, if I go back in time would I have imagined I would do that or I will survive this or what is, what do you mean?

Yes, because you know what, I have seen so many people give up and they [inaudible] difficulties and they could not emotionally and mentally come over all these difficult. So they’ve taken, like all these difficult journeys and being alone and then far from your family. Like when you start, you hoping different things. So when you leave basically you leave in more intense way and then could be like harmful sometimes to your mental health, and psychological in all the way. To be honest, for myself, and I could not imagine that would be much hard. And I basically find some tactics to handle the situation, overcome or survive. So what about your, for example?
Definitely I didn’t imagine it will be difficult because you kinda go to something unknown. Like when I left Syria, I came from – I mean, I had hopes as well, like I thought, and this is something do with the media as well, like with the globalism and things like that. It’s that the West has been seen as a very happy place in a way, like, and it is very attractive. So you will have, like, this is subconsciously, I’m gonna, can have so much, since coming here, and if you don’t, you kinda feel there’s something wrong with you. And I think this is in the first year, I was like, Why am I not feeling okay? I’m not supposed to, because I am not in a war zone. And I’m, like, supposedly in Europe and I should not – like, I was so much, like, thinking there’s something wrong with me. But it wasn’t I think now re-evaluating the situation, it was really hard. I didn’t imagine this would happen. Like, the difficulties were more than I expected them to be. Ideas of going back, to be honest with you, they came to me in the first few years. I was like, Why am I here? Like, I’m not enjoying it, like, it’s much harder. And then, Why don’t I go back? And I know, like, if I go back, it was very risky. So I kind of stayed, I don’t know, with my tactics and strategies, there were, like, different. Traveling was one of them, definitely, like, it was just going out and exploring new places, not to feel imprisoned in a way because exile feels imprison. Seeing old friends helps because you feel like you are experiencing same situation because you feel you’re not alone. And I have some old friends from back home but they live in other countries, not in the UK. So I think seeing them helped because I felt not alone in this. Like they’re experiencing the same thing. For me, like, playing music helps. Reading helps, these kind of things. Yeah, these are the things that help, I guess.

Yes. Let’s talk about COVID-19. You basically from the beginning said that before COVID and after COVID you actually said, that’s how it’s affected you. Let’s go into a bit more details and then how, in terms of your daily life and how it affected you?
It affected me because I’m living by myself and it’s just hard to see people. I think this is the main thing. Certainly, like, working from home all the time, so I don’t need to go to the office. Affected me, I can’t travel anymore, which is something that used to make me feel relief and happy in a way. So yeah, I mean these three things, I guess they just changed my lifestyle. So I have been seeing definitely less people than before. The thing is, I know a lot of people here, what they have done is they went back, they live with their families or they just, like, you know, like, everyone have friends from different countries from Italy, for example, from China. So when this started to happen, they went back home. They could be like, Why are we here? And this is something I could not do. I mean, if I had the chance, definitely I would go back, but this is something I can’t do. So I felt everyone’s going back to the reference in a point. You know, they had, like, family reference. But I was like, Okay, where’s my reference? And it is basically, only me now, my reference, which is, sad in a way. But also, you get more independence. I feel like you can depend on yourself more. That’s the positive part of it.

And also emotional part of it might be hard, because I guess, like, people day by day lose motivation because they’ve turned their whole life down for many people, so an emotional part must be one of the hardest things.
Definitely, emotionally has been quite hard, because it’s isolating. It is worrying, but personally to me, the hardest point was, like, it’s, like, in order for you to see people you have to trust them, even when the restrictions have been lifted. Like, not anyone can trust you, you know? There is something to do with COVID as well with actually being cautious about the virus itself. But other things is people they don’t wanna risk seeing others with people that it’s worth it, kind of seeing them. And that, I think, makes you question things. So yeah, I think in that sense, it’s been, like, emotionally challenging.

So why did you leave your country and can you describe what happened?
Actually I left because I want to do a master’s in architectural conservation. I’m an architect, and in my hometown, the old town is built by stone and and I kind of like a lot of historic buildings, and old archaeological buildings. They have been very badly restored, and I wasn’t, like, professionally interested in learning techniques in conservation. And I came to the UK to do a master’s in that. I got a scholarship to come here. So my main motivation was during the war, things were, like, unstable, hard, security situation was terrible, things like that. But I mean, I want to do this even before the war, like, even if there was no war, just you know, study more, knowing more techniques because I like my hometown. So I wanted to do something to it. So that’s why I came to Edinburgh, I found a scholarship. The University of Edinburgh. I came here, so that was the reason why I came. And it wasn’t an easy journey, it was very difficult.

So because you didn’t have, like, a difficult journey, so I’m going to make a bit different because –
I was lucky not to have a difficult journey.

Yeah, this is good because so many people are not that lucky.
Yeah I know, they’ve got really hard journeys.

So let’s move into your dreams, for example, there will be, like, three different, your past dreams and if they came true, or not. If you made them, or, like, when you [inaudible], and then other thing when you move here and what were you dreaming, for example? And so many people come with a dream of having beautiful life, an easy life, and then back to country, but unfortunately it’s not turning in this way. Like, what is your hope and dreams for future, for example? So before you left your home country and what was your dream and when you started, could you please say, My dream was?
Sure, I think the dreams have changed, definitely. And it’s something to do with age and something to do with human nature I guess, like not only these circumstances. So my dream was coming here, definitely think about it, like, I imagined I will have a more beautiful life in that sense. Nothing details by that subconscious kind of dream. I didn’t [laughing] that’s the short answer to it. I mean, there’s something again, like, to do with how the media portrays the West and also another thing is, like, when you’re struggling with something, you kind of have the feeling if I change all my problems will be solved and you know, like, okay, that will be the end to it. But it’s not. You get of course, different opportunities, different things. But yeah, dreams has been changed. Like, I imagined the work environment would be much nicer. Would be more artistic-driven, more friendly, but it’s not as I thought it is. It is more professional, definitely. But it’s less friendly in a way that I’d imagined. So yeah, it’s been different from other expected. I think living in the community also has been different. And you asked what about my current dreams?

Yeah, when you were leaving your home, what was your dream for the future.
I dreamed that I would have an easier life. I would have more engaging life with art, more friendly, like, I’d more kind of warmth, friends, and professional success as well. That was my dream. Some of it come true, but mainly not.

But I see you are very successful in your work and you bring in different things. So this is good. So now just before cropping up old questions and I wanted to ask something about your family. So where is your family now, how is their situation, is everything okay with them?
Yeah, they are back in Syria. They’re quite good. Luckily, my hometown hasn’t been badly damaged during the conflict, so no direct harm has happened to them. There is, of course, this pressure from the war situation, the security situation, economic situation things like that, it goes down. But I think generally speaking, they are good.

Okay. So before leaving your home country what would you describe as your strengths? Have you maintained these? And if yes, how?
My strength, creativity was one of them. Being empathetic, I think is one of them as well. Being friendly. Yeah, I think these were kind of my strengths when I was back home. Yeah, I definitely, like, had so many ideas in a creative way, which made me to a lot of things and appreciate in different ways. There are, like, some strengths that were not particularly my – I was lucky to be in them. For example, things that I got for granted in a way. Like I had a lot of family support. My hometown is nice. You know, the climate was nice. I had many friends. So I find that this is a lot of strength, not necessarily your made up strength, they’re just, like, you’re lucky to be in them. Coming here, somewhat strength on the character level remain. But for example, I lost the support that I had back home. I think this is the most, it became a weakness, kind of, because this some sort of support you used to have it. And it’s not there, so you have to compensate for it somehow. Being in a new country will be challenging to, for example, in the workplace, it’s not compete, but, like, to have the same kind of knowledge as the local, the same kind of expertise things like that, it’s more challenging. So in that sense, I lost some of the strength, definitely. So I feel like there’s more things to work out towards, basically.

Do you think that when you lose the support, do you lose power or do you gain power, like you became stronger? Because some people become so more independent and find the way to struggle, and then that basically give them another strength.
Definitely I mean yeah, I totally agree. You kind of have to find the support somehow, and I became more independent, definitely, which made me stronger in some ways, but that had a price. Like, it wasn’t an easy process, you know, to come there. Yeah, definitely, like, it’s not necessarily all negative. There is some positive part to it. So you gain different kind of strengths. Weighting them, I don’t know. It’s hard to tell, you know, which is better or worse, but yeah, you lose some strength. But gain other as well. So yeah, I became more independent. And, I mean, like, independent, economically, psychologically.

What’s your dream for future?
My dream for the future? That’s a very hard question. I wish I know. My dream for the future is to still, I think, trying to find ways to compensate the emotional support that I had back home. I’ll explained more. It’s like when you leave your place, there is some sort of loss that you experience, a grief that you experience I guess. You lose something, and I think trying to find something similar to it, that gives you this homely feeling, like you feel home in a place, the warmth. So my dream is to kind of try to find this while living abroad. Something similar to it that gives you this kind of support, I think is the main dream. I wish that will happen. I still don’t know how. But I wish it will happen I guess.

Maybe one day. This is a good dream. Thank you so much, I appreciate all your answers. Is there anything you would like to add that might help, in Europe better understand the life of refugees, or like, I don’t know, there are so many things going on. For example, we have witnessed so many challenges with refugees around Europe. Like, people are first arriving Greece, and from Greece to different European countries, and UK taken different journeys. So is there any message from you to these people?
To European people to understand? Yes, I have so many messages. One message is definitely there isn’t that much level of understanding of the difficulties people go through, and one of the reasons why also, people don’t see these difficulties, they view the refugees or, like, I think the media in general talks about refugees in either of two ways. One of them is very patronizing, like showing refugees as weak as you know, like poor, as this is the kind of stereotype of being a refugee, which doesn’t help at all. 

It more, I think, changing the view of it that will help in understanding them, and by I mean changing the view is understanding them as humans, as like them, like they could be a refugee as well if something happens. So I think if we talk about it as a human experience rather than these faraway people from the Middle East, or like just from far countries that they’re coming here from – I’ve found there is a way of separation in it, could be also very patronizing. If somebody, like, expects me to talk about my refugee experiences, like how much you struggle and things like that and like as something very different from them. I find it patronizing in a way, but it was more like a human experience it’s, like, ah, maybe if I was in your situation, how would you cope, you know? And I think in that sense, it helps more, like, to understand it, not as outsiders coming to Europe, it’s more like what would humans deal with, cope with something like that. And I think in this perspective that will definitely help. Help understanding, and help also better integration between the Europeans and the people coming, but also better mutual benefits. It’s not, like, benefits refugees only, but also benefits Europeans as well, because those people are coming with new perspectives on things, new skills that could compensate the culture rather than destroy the culture. So yeah, it depends on the way you see it.

Is there anything you would like to add?
I think I talked so much. No, thank you.

Thank you so much.